|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| Anyone who makes blanket generalizations about the United States is either a foreigner or a fool. |
But blanket generalizations about Korea and Koreans is A-Ok!
Never said that there weren't exceptions. But if you believe what you posted is the norm and not the minority, well then I don't know what to say about foolishness. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Hindsight
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
To recap:
| Hindsight wrote: |
Another picture of yucky, brown American school lunches:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/03/06/nyregion/06JPCRITIC1/06JPCRITIC1-popup.jpg
Not.
| Quote: |
Whatever scary memories the lunch line summons for you, in New York today it can be a surprisingly enlightened place, with whole-grain pasta, salad bars, fresh fruit and low-fat, low-sodium recipes. No fried food, no artificial ingredients, no trans fats....
At Public School 56, in the Clinton Hill neighborhood of Brooklyn, a school so focused on good nutrition that large portions of its courtyard have been given over to a vegetable garden, theory meets practice every morning at 10:30 with the first of three lunch shifts.
On Wednesday, the cafeteria ladies were ladling out Latin Rice Bowls: chicken tenders, Spanish rice, sweet plantains and a red pepper sauce. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/nyregion/06critic.html?_r=1&hp
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/03/06/nyregion/06JPCRITIC2/06JPCRITIC2-popup.jpg
Anyone who makes blanket generalizations about the United States is either a foreigner or a fool. |
Response:
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Anyone who makes blanket generalizations about the United States is either a foreigner or a fool. |
But blanket generalizations about Korea and Koreans is A-Ok!
Never said that there weren't exceptions. But if you believe what you posted is the norm and not the minority, well then I don't know what to say about foolishness. |
| Quote: |
| Because the school system operates on such a huge scale � 860,000 meals a day, which means, for example, seven million gallons of milk a year |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/nyregion/06critic.html?_r=2&hp
New York City, population 8,391,881, and its 860,000 meals a day -- a few "exceptions"
United States of America (not counting Steelrails) -- 310,949,131 exceptions (that's the point, buddy, America is a nation of exceptions)
The World (again not counting Steelrails) -- 6,904,416,999 more exceptions
The Steelrails Universe -- Population 1 (not counting the exceptions)
Population clock:
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
-----
| Quote: |
| But blanket generalizations about Korea and Koreans is A-Ok! |
Well, they sure seem to be, even ungrammatical ones, at least according to you.
But then, everyone knows Koreans always make blanket generalizations about their own country.
If they didn't, what would they be?
(The Official Korean National Motto: "We generalize, therefore we are one.)
Think about that one for awhile.
Have a nice day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
New York City is not America.
And if healthy lunches like the one you showed were the norm, then how come the First Lady of the United States is currently on a crusade to improve the offerings at school lunches?
If those lunches were the norm, Michelle Obama would not be on her crusade. But she is on her crusade. We know that isn't the norm. That's why she is making an issue about it.
Duh.
Please don't insult our intelligence. We know what is normally served in the cafeteria in America. I agree with Michelle Obama on this issue.
| Quote: |
| But then, everyone knows Koreans always make blanket generalizations about their own country. |
Doesn't make it right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iRock
Joined: 08 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| So where's the crusade in Korea? At least America's trying to get up to the same standards as the larger cities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| iRock wrote: |
| So where's the crusade in Korea? At least America's trying to get up to the same standards as the larger cities. |
Usually in most schools. The ingredients are displayed to show where they come from. Calories are displayed.
Korean lunch is nowhere perfect- Bye-Bye white rice and salt. But its nowhere near the disaster that a good many US school lunches are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
New York City is not America.
|
You will say anything to prove one of your no-fact, grasping at straws points.
Seoul is not Korea. Tokyo is not Japan. Paris is not France. Berlin is not Germany. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
New York City is not America.
|
You will say anything to prove one of your no-fact, grasping at straws points.
Seoul is not Korea. Tokyo is not Japan. Paris is not France. Berlin is not Germany. |
Yes, New York is not America. New York is New York. Its culture and lifestyle is distinctly different. Unless you are suggesting that Comstock, Wyoming and New York are very much alike.
California and New York tend to be much more progressive than the rest of the States. To say "Hey its like this in New York City, ergo it must be like that in the rest of the USA" is silly. I don't think Sarah Palin's Wasilia, Alaska or "The Heartland" is "The Real America", nor do I think that NYC is "The Real America".
So no, that cafeteria fare in New York is not standard American cafeteria fare. Again, if it were, Michelle Obama would not be on her crusade.
So I ask you straight to the point- Do you believe that what was shown in that article is standard American cafeteria fare? Or do you believe it is exceptional?
EDIT- And Seoul is not Korea. Especially when it comes to dining options. Unless you wish to claim that there are a plethora of Mexican and Indian restaurants in the small to midsize towns many of us live in.
Last edited by Steelrails on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Livewire
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Location: BI-WINNING!
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am not jumping into the argument as the British school playground chant provides empirical and unquestionable evidence that school dinners are naff the world over; and it's part of growing up and builds character!
'School dinners, school dinners
mushy peas, mushy peas
semolina pudding, semolina pudding
I feel sick, bucket quick.
You're too late, I done it on me plate.'
Sung to tune of 'Frerre Jaques.'
I believe Jamie Oliver is over in LA as we read and type trying to talk the city into providing healthier school meals for it's kids. He successfuly did the same in his Native England.
Thoughts?
Anyway, I ate school dinners and I, erm, turned out okay... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hindsight
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
New York City is not America.
And if healthy lunches like the one you showed were the norm, then how come the First Lady of the United States is currently on a crusade to improve the offerings at school lunches?
If those lunches were the norm, Michelle Obama would not be on her crusade. But she is on her crusade. We know that isn't the norm. That's why she is making an issue about it.
Duh.
Please don't insult our intelligence. We know what is normally served in the cafeteria in America. I agree with Michelle Obama on this issue.
| Quote: |
| But then, everyone knows Koreans always make blanket generalizations about their own country. |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
New York City is not America.
|
You will say anything to prove one of your no-fact, grasping at straws points.
Seoul is not Korea. Tokyo is not Japan. Paris is not France. Berlin is not Germany. |
Yes, New York is not America. New York is New York. Its culture and lifestyle is distinctly different. Unless you are suggesting that Comstock, Wyoming and New York are very much alike.
California and New York tend to be much more progressive than the rest of the States. To say "Hey its like this in New York City, ergo it must be like that in the rest of the USA" is silly. I don't think Sarah Palin's Wasilia, Alaska or "The Heartland" is "The Real America", nor do I think that NYC is "The Real America".
So no, that cafeteria fare in New York is not standard American cafeteria fare. Again, if it were, Michelle Obama would not be on her crusade.
So I ask you straight to the point- Do you believe that what was shown in that article is standard American cafeteria fare? Or do you believe it is exceptional?
EDIT- And Seoul is not Korea. Especially when it comes to dining options. Unless you wish to claim that there are a plethora of Mexican and Indian restaurants in the small to midsize towns many of us live in. |
Doesn't make it right. |
So, New York City is not America. There are a lot of Jews living in New York City, so I guess in your book, Steelrails, they are not Americans. A lot of people of Italian descent live there, too. But we all know Italians are not American's either, right, Steelrails? And those nasty Armenians and Russians and Greeks and Iranians and Tibetans and Chinese and Burmese and especially Kenyans. People with Kenyan fathers can't be real Americans, can they Steelrails?
And what about California? Well, there are those nasty "progressives" (commies?), and we all know there are lots of gays and lesbians living in California, so of course they are not real Americans. And those people of Japanese descent are not real Americans in your book, either, are they Steelrails? And what foreign country was that former governor from? He wasn't a real American.
And how about Louisiana? Definitely not Steelrail's America cause they have this governor named Bobby Jindal whose parents are from India.
Wasilla, Alaska has lots of Baptists, and they didn't exactly come over on the Mayflower, so they can't be real Americans. Heck, some people in Alaska were born before it was a state, so they are not Americans. Then there's the Alaskans of Russian descent from back when it was part of Russia, so they aren't part of Steelrail's real America. More than 20 percent of Alaska are Natives whose families go back about 10,000 years in Alaska, but since they are a minority, they can't be real Americans, and they sure don't eat real American food, either.
those Mormons in Utah can't be considered real Americans cause they're a minority, too.
Florida? Too many Cubans and Latinos to qualify as Steelrail's real America.
Washington, D.C. has far too many Blacks to be typical of Steelrail's vision of America.
Vermonters certainly are not the real America because they like to eat Vermont cheese and organic food, and in Steelrail's America, real Americans eat junk food. And besides, Vermonters tend to elect Socialists.
Maine? Too many French Canadians.
New Mexico? Too many New Mexicans for Steelrails.
So where was that real America you said you ate your real high school lunches you hated? Upper Podunk? And what do the Upper Podunkians think of you, Steelrails? Did they think you were a real American?
Steelrails REAL America: Population 1.
There is a word to describe people like you, Steelrails, and it is not "American."
What is the real America? It is the sum total of all the "exceptions," the "eteceteras" and the "and so forths."
There is no one real American or one real America. It is all those places and people listed above and more, the Amish and the atheists, Mormons and Jews, Cubans and Chinese, Natives and refugees. And yes, even New Yorkers who speak funny or Californians who marry funny, or Vermonters who eat funny. This is the United States of America, a country of 50 distinct states made up of people from every nation on the globe, every religion, every race, and, yes, every type of food.
This is the America I am proud of. These are the values I was taught in school (a school that served excellent lunches). This is the America I have seen from the Atlantic to the Pacific, from the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of Alaska, from Maine to Arizona. I met countless wonderful people in my travels and had the good fortune to see America before demagogues and small-minded people like Steelrails started polluting it with hate and divisiveness.
When someone says "I am a real American and you're not" because they don't live in the right place or hold the right beliefs or eat the right food, I am ashamed. And they should be, too.
That is not the America I grew up in. But if Steelrails is what he says he is, a typical American, which I find difficult to believe, I am afraid that is the America we have to look forward to.
I hope not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think you guys totally misunderstood my post...
Think if I said "The Dallas Cowboys are not the NFL"- What this means is that the Dallas Cowboys are not representative of the NFL. Their owner is too much of a character, they have too much of the limelight on them, etc. etc. They are part of the NFL but they do not represent it.
"This X is not Y" is a rhetorical device often heard in the political and talk-radio spheres in America. Seeing as you're from America and college educated I'm surprised you haven't heard it used.
Here's examples of it "ripped from the headlines": Ghaddafi is not the Middle East. Bin Laden is not Islam. Sarah Palin is not the Republican Party. LeBron James is not the NBA. Charlie Sheen is not Hollywood. Get it?
Do you seriously think that I think that NYC is not part of America?But clearly all of us would have to agree that NYC does not represent America. NYC is not America anymore than a pocket is not pants. Clear?
In that sense, Hindsight, my post actually matches yours. When I say Wasilia or New York or "The Heartland" or California is not America it is because they do not encompass the full range of "America" and cannot serve as an accurate depiction of "America". America is a mosaic. A broad tapestry. That is precisely why I took exception to the suggestion that the NYC menu was representative.
Now back on topic: If those New York Lunches are so typical and representative, why is Michelle Obama on her crusade? Can someone please answer me that question!
Even better: If those lunches are so typical, why is the New York Times reporting on them as though they are revolutionary and exceptional? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
New York in many ways mirrors and amplifies the experience of most of the cities and regions in the NE and Great Lakes. Jersey, Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago, Pittsburg-Cleveland-Detroit. This comprises fully half of the US' population and an even greater share of economic output.
New York is the centerpiece of culture and commerce in the US, to say it is not the totality of the country is like saying the brain is not the totality of the body. Obviously not, but it is essential to both its output and input.
As for your NYT angle (never stop moving those goalposts!!!!), they also report on hipsters in Brooklyn like it's the newest thing, making them at least 15 years behind the trend. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| New York in many ways mirrors and amplifies the experience of most of the cities and regions in the NE and Great Lakes. Jersey, Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago, Pittsburg-Cleveland-Detroit. |
No it doesn't, not at all. NYC is nothing like Detroit or Cleveland or Chicago. Please. Some of us actually have lived and been to those places, don't insult our intelligence.
"Yeah, living in Cleveland is just like living in New York." Please. If anyone said those words outloud back home they'd be laughed at.
| Quote: |
| New York is the centerpiece of culture and commerce in the US. Obviously not, but it is essential to both its output and input. |
Yes, but its not representative of "the body" of America. New York does not represent America. It is not "standard". It is exceptional.
| Quote: |
| As for your NYT angle (never stop moving those goalposts!!!!), they also report on hipsters in Brooklyn like it's the newest thing, making them at least 15 years behind the trend. |
So you really think those lunches are the norm? What is Michelle Obama doing then? Why is she harping on the lunches? Is she misinformed? Is it possible that those lunches aren't the norm and you're just having trouble admitting it?
Please answer those questions. I expect these kinds of willful delusions in the face of reality from Koreans, not college-educated NETs. But I guess we are more alike than unalike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
"Yeah, living in Cleveland is just like living in New York." Please. If anyone said those words outloud back home they'd be laughed at.
|
show me where i said "just like"
| Quote: |
| Yes, but its not representative of "the body" of America. New York does not represent America. It is not "standard". It is exceptional. |
as is every single city in the us by that standard.
| Quote: |
| So you really think those lunches are the norm? |
do you really think they aren't? i have seen nothing from you that doesn't boil down to "come on guys i don't have any proof for what i'm saying, but doesn't it just FEEL right?"
we don't need another Bill Simmons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| show me where i said "just like" |
Fine. If you said this back home-
| Quote: |
| New York in many ways mirrors and amplifies the experience of most of the cities and regions in the NE and Great Lakes. |
People would laugh at you.
| Quote: |
| as is every single city in the us by that standard. |
Exactly. A single U.S. city is no way to talk about broad trends in the U.S., especially in this instance.
| Quote: |
| do you really think they aren't? i have seen nothing from you that doesn't boil down to "come on guys i don't have any proof for what i'm saying, but doesn't it just FEEL right?" |
Yes, because Michelle Obama is launching a crusade about school lunches. This story has been all over the news. Ask Americans what they had for school lunch and if it resembles what was displayed in New York and you'd get a resounding "No".
You're playing the game of "How can we prove anything? How do we know? Maybe everything is lies" game that people resort to when they start to lose arguments.
The NYT article is written in a tone that suggests that this is not the standard school cafeteria experience that Americans are familiar with.
Do you believe that if you were to show Americans a picture of the cafeteria food from New York and were to say "That's typical American school cafeteria food". We know everyone would say "No, it's not." Now if you were to say "That's not typical" pretty much everyone would agree. The only qualifier would be those in New York or progressive districts, but they would of course point out the exceptional nature.
What's next, saying a typical fast food meal is the BK veggie burger and a side salad? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
