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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again - I'm not adamantly opposed to extending public transportation service hours... I'm just leery of some of the reasoning behind it.
-It'll cut down on drunk driving
-students can get home
-people can travel to Busan in the middle of the night
-it's safer
-it's cheaper
And while all of them seem to be positives, I can also see glaring problems with each.
If they could extend service 24 hours, all while keeping profits/losses and such in line, I'm all for it. But, as already noted, the system is losing money as it is. Imagine how much it'd cost to run it 24 hours - salaries for drivers, cleaners, security, service staff. Power/heating/air conditioning for every station. Etc... There's just so much that'd come into play.
All for something that has very little traction with the voting public.
Steelrails is quite correct in his assesment - there's merit to both sides, but arguments against the 'parental class just sound stupid. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Here's another question - where do you go and meet up with people?
Chances are, if you're younger and single, it's in specific areas around Seoul - Gangnam, Hongdae, (Itaewon?). People who are married and/or older, are less inclined to do that sort ofthing. Sure, they meet friends, but they also socialize near their homes.
So, if you're wanting to say out all hours and party... is there anything from stopping you from doing it on your part of the city? |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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so increase the subway fares 50% - taxi fares keep increasing. Expand the subway service and increase the cost. I'm kind of confused as to why people are so concerned with civic finances on this issue.
NYC has night transportation. SF does it. These cities are, so far as I know, not the worst off cities in the states. Why not Seoul? |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
so increase the subway fares 50% - taxi fares keep increasing. Expand the subway service and increase the cost. I'm kind of confused as to why people are so concerned with civic finances on this issue.
NYC has night transportation. SF does it. These cities are, so far as I know, not the worst off cities in the states. Why not Seoul? |
Hi, can you tell me where I can find a money tree? |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Here's another question - where do you go and meet up with people?
Chances are, if you're younger and single, it's in specific areas around Seoul - Gangnam, Hongdae, (Itaewon?). People who are married and/or older, are less inclined to do that sort ofthing. Sure, they meet friends, but they also socialize near their homes.
So, if you're wanting to say out all hours and party... is there anything from stopping you from doing it on your part of the city? |
Sense of entitlement... |
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soulofseoul
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Heres my idea...
Keep ONLY line 2 open 24 hrs. Since most other areas of Seoul can be reached from some point on that line. You could increase the fares from 12-5 or something like that and just have trains come every 10-15 minutes. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
so increase the subway fares 50% - taxi fares keep increasing. Expand the subway service and increase the cost. I'm kind of confused as to why people are so concerned with civic finances on this issue.
NYC has night transportation. SF does it. These cities are, so far as I know, not the worst off cities in the states. Why not Seoul? |
Hi, can you tell me where I can find a money tree? |
I guess they grow in NY and SF, but not in Seoul. Maybe it's a cultural thing. 
If you can afford taxi price hikes, you can afford a hike in the very low subway fares. Those are the real reason the subway system is taking a loss. If it is...people keep throwing numbers around without sources. |
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methdxman
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
so increase the subway fares 50% - taxi fares keep increasing. Expand the subway service and increase the cost. I'm kind of confused as to why people are so concerned with civic finances on this issue.
NYC has night transportation. SF does it. These cities are, so far as I know, not the worst off cities in the states. Why not Seoul? |
Hi, can you tell me where I can find a money tree? |
I guess they grow in NY and SF, but not in Seoul. Maybe it's a cultural thing.
If you can afford taxi price hikes, you can afford a hike in the very low subway fares. Those are the real reason the subway system is taking a loss. If it is...people keep throwing numbers around without sources. |
http://www.google.co.kr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpolicy.rutgers.edu%2Ffaculty%2Fpucher%2FPTI_English.pdf&ei=EOmsTc3VBo6IuAOyqe3VCg&usg=AFQjCNEaue6HAu-drIDF6F3l9SUv45U-wA&sig2=yP99qboEP8vMuQASa9uHbg
Again, I repeat. 600 Million USD net operating loss a year. Net operating loss means just from operating costs. Doesn't include capital expenditures.
Finally comparing subway systems and governments is like comparing apples and oranges. If all you can offer up is "if it exists in NY, it should exist here" then we immediately realize why some people become leaders and CEOs and why others don't. |
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West Coast Tatterdemalion
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Exactly, just raise the price of tickets a bit. I actually think it is too cheap as it is. And I think it is pretty dumb to say, "well, just buy a car." That's real smart. As if Korea doesn't have enough pollution problems and cars everywhere. Brilliant idea there, Captain. Yes, let's have even MORE cars on the road here in Korea. The Captain is like an old guy in the neighborhood that always is concerned about what everyone else is doing. "You young whippersnappers, how dare you actually stay out late. How dare you actually drink and party." You are old, dude. You are just old. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
| methdxman wrote: |
| nukeday wrote: |
so increase the subway fares 50% - taxi fares keep increasing. Expand the subway service and increase the cost. I'm kind of confused as to why people are so concerned with civic finances on this issue.
NYC has night transportation. SF does it. These cities are, so far as I know, not the worst off cities in the states. Why not Seoul? |
Hi, can you tell me where I can find a money tree? |
I guess they grow in NY and SF, but not in Seoul. Maybe it's a cultural thing.
If you can afford taxi price hikes, you can afford a hike in the very low subway fares. Those are the real reason the subway system is taking a loss. If it is...people keep throwing numbers around without sources. |
http://www.google.co.kr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpolicy.rutgers.edu%2Ffaculty%2Fpucher%2FPTI_English.pdf&ei=EOmsTc3VBo6IuAOyqe3VCg&usg=AFQjCNEaue6HAu-drIDF6F3l9SUv45U-wA&sig2=yP99qboEP8vMuQASa9uHbg
Again, I repeat. 600 Million USD net operating loss a year. Net operating loss means just from operating costs. Doesn't include capital expenditures.
Finally comparing subway systems and governments is like comparing apples and oranges. If all you can offer up is "if it exists in NY, it should exist here" then we immediately realize why some people become leaders and CEOs and why others don't. |
I offered up raising ticket prices. Again, I repeat, they are very low. Taxi prices increased a couple years back - why not the subway and buses? Or charge more for off-peak hours. It isn't that complicated especially with how computerized the ticketing system is here. It can be done. It would go far in proving the "24 hour culture" myth that Korea likes to mouth. Leaders and CEOs (like you in the future, you seem to be implying) choose not to do it.
I bet they lose money with low ridership on Sunday mornings, too. Somehow they keep running at regular intervals. I mean, why isn't the market speaking? I'd bet Fri/Sat night would get more ridership than certain times on the weekend.
You seemed not to believe in the Taxi union, but it exists.
"comparing subway systems and governments is like comparing apples and oranges" - what? Cities often use other cities as a model for implementing infrastructure. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| West Coast Tatterdemalion wrote: |
| Exactly, just raise the price of tickets a bit. I actually think it is too cheap as it is. And I think it is pretty dumb to say, "well, just buy a car." That's real smart. As if Korea doesn't have enough pollution problems and cars everywhere. Brilliant idea there, Captain. Yes, let's have even MORE cars on the road here in Korea. The Captain is like an old guy in the neighborhood that always is concerned about what everyone else is doing. "You young whippersnappers, how dare you actually stay out late. How dare you actually drink and party." You are old, dude. You are just old. |
Nice personal insults there. I'm not really sure how they actually help your point though. 'You are old'... because I prefer not to go out drinking at night and enjoy spending time with my little girl??
Somehow you use this to debase my opinion??
If you want to travel from spot A to spot B, a car IS an option. If, like some people on this thread, you don't like to wait for an hour between trains, you can consider other options. MANY people own and use cars in Korea. They are an option.
But, if you read through my posts on the subject, and quote me correctly, you'll notice I actually show that there are a variety of options.
But my key point, and one that seems to be flying over your head is - where is the demand? WHO is crying out for 24 hour subway service?
| nukeday wrote: |
| I'd bet Fri/Sat night would get more ridership than certain times on the weekend. |
From who? What demographic is clubbing on friday/saturday nights? |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| CC: It isn't just clubbing. For many of us, those are the nights that we have the time to do anything, let alone the lack of work in the morning. You seem to think that it's all drinking and partying. I do neither, but like to go out to meet friends who live from all over for any number of things, or have a nice dinner that isn't Korean food with my fiance. I'd be happy to pay 5,000 won to take an hourly train back to Incheon. I might not like having to wait 59 minutes if I missed it, but then I'd still have the option of choosing between spending 40,000 for a taxi or waiting. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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You're the one insisting it's clubbers on Fri/Sat night. People move around Korea on the weekends. Late night subway for late night train arrivals to Seoul station make sense. 24 hour, convenience culture, etc.
Of course, I think it should be 24 hours every day, not just the weekend. But if we are going to insist that ridership is the issue on whether the subway should be open or not, there are plenty of off-peak hours when the trains are running. And, yes, revelers on weekend nights/mornings would push ridership up far past 7 AM Sunday levels. I'm not going to try to take away those 7 AM weekend trains with a small smattering of elderly in them either. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| CC: It isn't just clubbing. For many of us, those are the nights that we have the time to do anything, let alone the lack of work in the morning. You seem to think that it's all drinking and partying. I do neither, but like to go out to meet friends who live from all over for any number of things, or have a nice dinner that isn't Korean food with my fiance. I'd be happy to pay 5,000 won to take an hourly train back to Incheon. I might not like having to wait 59 minutes if I missed it, but then I'd still have the option of choosing between spending 40,000 for a taxi or waiting. |
Lack of work in the morning, eh? You figure you're representative of Koreans at large?
| nukeday wrote: |
You're the one insisting it's clubbers on Fri/Sat night. People move around Korea on the weekends. Late night subway for late night train arrivals to Seoul station make sense. 24 hour, convenience culture, etc.
Of course, I think it should be 24 hours every day, not just the weekend. But if we are going to insist that ridership is the issue on whether the subway should be open or not, there are plenty of off-peak hours when the trains are running. And, yes, revelers on weekend nights/mornings would push ridership up far past 7 AM Sunday levels. I'm not going to try to take away those 7 AM weekend trains with a small smattering of elderly in them either. |
I'll ask again, where's the demand? Where's the demand from locals on this issue? which demographic is really interested in this? |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| CC: It isn't just clubbing. For many of us, those are the nights that we have the time to do anything, let alone the lack of work in the morning. You seem to think that it's all drinking and partying. I do neither, but like to go out to meet friends who live from all over for any number of things, or have a nice dinner that isn't Korean food with my fiance. I'd be happy to pay 5,000 won to take an hourly train back to Incheon. I might not like having to wait 59 minutes if I missed it, but then I'd still have the option of choosing between spending 40,000 for a taxi or waiting. |
Lack of work in the morning, eh? You figure you're representative of Koreans at large? |
Sunday morning? You'd better believe it. Saturday morning? A good proportion have that time off too. My coteachers and I were discussing this last week. They said that, more often than not, Koreans have Saturdays off (they wanted to be part of that demographic!) |
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