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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| I think we can all agree that many Korean families go overboard with the hagwons (much of this is an arms race), but isn't the concept of after-school education pretty common to you guys already? When I was a child, I took Jiu-jitsu (Japanese style, before BJJ became a thing), skating lessons, summer camps with the local YMCA, and I had a math tutor in high school (without whom I would have most certainly failed grade 13 statistics). I hardly come from a rich family and many of my schoolmates took lessons of some kind outside of school. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| I think we can all agree that many Korean families go overboard with the hagwons (much of this is an arms race), but isn't the concept of after-school education pretty common to you guys already? When I was a child, I took Jiu-jitsu (Japanese style, before BJJ became a thing), skating lessons, summer camps with the local YMCA, and I had a math tutor in high school (without whom I would have most certainly failed grade 13 statistics). I hardly come from a rich family and many of my schoolmates took lessons of some kind outside of school. |
In the UK this is not usual. Maybe 10% if that. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| I think we can all agree that many Korean families go overboard with the hagwons (much of this is an arms race), but isn't the concept of after-school education pretty common to you guys already? When I was a child, I took Jiu-jitsu (Japanese style, before BJJ became a thing), skating lessons, summer camps with the local YMCA, and I had a math tutor in high school (without whom I would have most certainly failed grade 13 statistics). I hardly come from a rich family and many of my schoolmates took lessons of some kind outside of school. |
In the UK this is not usual. Maybe 10% if that. |
That and martial arts, skating lessons, summer camps and so forth > hagwons. Those are things kids should be doing and most kids enjoy doing. I used to beg my parents to let me go to Cadet and Scout camps during my summers for as long as eight weeks at a time. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| I think we can all agree that many Korean families go overboard with the hagwons (much of this is an arms race), but isn't the concept of after-school education pretty common to you guys already? When I was a child, I took Jiu-jitsu (Japanese style, before BJJ became a thing), skating lessons, summer camps with the local YMCA, and I had a math tutor in high school (without whom I would have most certainly failed grade 13 statistics). I hardly come from a rich family and many of my schoolmates took lessons of some kind outside of school. |
Good point.
I look at young families in our area and the kids are booked solid with actitivies! A typical primary school kid here (ontario where we live) goes to school (morning until mid afternoon) on weekdays and then has a pile of out of school activities that range from sports to music and for many private tutoring.
Its not as heavy as some of the korean families I knew in Busan but its not all play either! It also really depends on each family and on the choices they make. The thing is, the pressure to join these activities starts pretty early and comes from your own kid who just wants to be with his friends at soccer, swimming, music... |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
That and martial arts, skating lessons, summer camps and so forth > hagwons. Those are things kids should be doing and most kids enjoy doing. I used to beg my parents to let me go to Cadet and Scout camps during my summers for as long as eight weeks at a time. |
A lot of those things are hagwons here.
Hagwons are not just english and math class, they're also martial arts, music lessons, sports like soccer, and art as well.
Speaking of summer camps, this is one where kids go and do some woodworking projects
http://blog.naver.com/khhy0605?Redirect=Log&logNo=133612149
It's not a terribly long camp, but it's in the same vein:
http://cafe.naver.com/2011dbcamp/
and another, seems to be a swimming/fitness based camp
http://cafe.naver.com/okri2010/
| Quote: |
I look at young families in our area and the kids are booked solid with actitivies! A typical primary school kid here (ontario where we live) goes to school (morning until mid afternoon) on weekdays and then has a pile of out of school activities that range from sports to music and for many private tutoring. |
I think the difference is you're a lot less likely to see academic after school activities unless a kid is struggling in class. In that sense North American parents seem to be more reactive to their child's academic needs while korean parents are more proactive. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Alongway,
Good points - especially about reactive and proactive. It also shows a difference in the way we look at public education. North Americans are generally more positive about public education. Tutoring is only when there is a problem. In Korea, the general belief is that public education is never enough at best and corrupt at worst. The only way they can trust a teacher is by paying him or her (why there are so many bribes). I sense that Americans are becoming more and more like Koreans -suspicious of their schools (whether there is a reason to or not is hard to say). |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
Alongway,
Good points - especially about reactive and proactive. It also shows a difference in the way we look at public education. North Americans are generally more positive about public education. Tutoring is only when there is a problem. In Korea, the general belief is that public education is never enough at best and corrupt at worst. The only way they can trust a teacher is by paying him or her (why there are so many bribes). I sense that Americans are becoming more and more like Koreans -suspicious of their schools (whether there is a reason to or not is hard to say). |
It's not just about the public education system in Korea, it's everything else.
Koreans as a whole seem to be more competitive than most north americans.
Their using academic hagwons is not fully a slight against the public education system as some would take it. Even if it was the best education system in the world, I suspect you'd still see Koreans sending their kids to hagwons after school.
Americans talk about "keeping up with the Jones", Koreans talk about leaving the Jones in their dust. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
That and martial arts, skating lessons, summer camps and so forth > hagwons. Those are things kids should be doing and most kids enjoy doing. I used to beg my parents to let me go to Cadet and Scout camps during my summers for as long as eight weeks at a time. |
A lot of those things are hagwons here.
Hagwons are not just english and math class, they're also martial arts, music lessons, sports like soccer, and art as well. |
Most kids only seem to go to hagwons for English, science and math. When I asked the kids I used to teach what they went to hagwons for and when I ask my adult students now, those are the answers I get. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
Most kids only seem to go to hagwons for English, science and math. When I asked the kids I used to teach what they went to hagwons for and when I ask my adult students now, those are the answers I get. |
I'm sure you've got some reliable statistics that you didn't just pull out of your backside to validate that assertion.
The adults i know go to hagwons to study things like coffee making or nail art. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
Most kids only seem to go to hagwons for English, science and math. When I asked the kids I used to teach what they went to hagwons for and when I ask my adult students now, those are the answers I get. |
I'm sure you've got some reliable statistics that you didn't just pull out of your backside. |
I'd gladly show statistics if I've had them. This entire thread is anecdotal as are most threads on Dave's.
So back up what you've said or STFU. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
Most kids only seem to go to hagwons for English, science and math. When I asked the kids I used to teach what they went to hagwons for and when I ask my adult students now, those are the answers I get. |
I'm sure you've got some reliable statistics that you didn't just pull out of your backside to validate that assertion.
The adults i know go to hagwons to study things like coffee making or nail art. |
I'd gladly show statistics if I've had them. This entire thread is anecdotal as are most threads on Dave's.
So back up what you've said or STFU. |
I did. I demonstrated that all the activities you claimed were ignored in Korea exist.
You've made claims like "most kids" without providing a shred of evidence beyond your own narrow view without even the slightest hint of critical thinking that would have told you that others personal experiences may not mirror your own and making sweeping generalizations based on your own limited and short sighted experience may not be the smartest move.
Let's recap: I said hagwons were not just math and English.
I also said that summer camps exist
evidence abounds for those two claims
You've claimed most kids and adults do nothing but study math and English.
evidence provide? 0
take your own advice. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| It each plenty of kids that go to Music, hapkido, taekwando, muay thai, computing, art and science hakwans for what it's worth. |
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