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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
It is the way it is.
If the market demand for teachers at universities is getting smaller...who gets these jobs?
The ones who already have them.
A: I want to be a university lecturer.
B: But there is no demand for more of them now.
A: That isn't fair...to me.
B: Should I give you my job?
A: Yes. I will do a better job than you.
B: Really? You could be right. But I was here first, so *beep* off.
It isn't fair.
No doubt.
Life isn't fair. |
Oh, I see. As long as an unfair rule benefits you, you are cool with it.
| mr_spivak wrote: |
| They could be picking the wrong person because they have "experience" even if its not good experience. I know of a guy who has "experience" but he was posing sexual questions to female students and had to quit. So technically he would be more qualified for me. |
Incidentally, the latest uni ad I saw:
Qualifications
Applicants must meet all of the following qualifications to be considered for a position:
1. An undergraduate or graduate degree, preferably in the field of English Literature, Education, Linguistics, TESOL, Communication, etc.
2. Bachelor degree holders must have a minimum of 4 years teaching experience at the university level.
3. Master’s degree holders must have a minimum of 2 years teaching experience at the university level.
4. Ph.D. holders do not require previous university experience.
5. Hold a passport from one of 7 countries recognized by the Korean government as English-speaking (Canada, United States, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, United Kingdom, Ireland).
6. Be able to start March 1, 2015.
Note: Tongmyong University absolutely requires applicants to have the minimum qualifications of BA+4 years university teaching experience or MA+2 years university teaching experience. Applicants without the required qualifications WILL NOT be considered and will not be contacted by the university. If there are no applicants with the required qualifications, the position(s) will not be filled.
Wow. That's asking a lot. How much are they paying?
2.4 million won/month for BA holders; 2.5 million won/month for MA holders; 2.7/month for Ph.D. holders
That's the same as was standard ten years ago, meaning adjusted for inflation, the pay is much, much, much less.
But here's the kicker:
-neither housing nor a housing allowance are provided by the university
Taking into account .5mil a month for housing, salaries are 1.9 for a BA+4, 2.0 for a MA+2, and 2.2 for a PhD. Not that great. So many on this board predicted an increase in demands (requirements) would push wages upwards, but that hasn't happened. Rather, the future will see a continued gradual increase in work/expectations/requirements/demands coupled with a decline in (inflation adjusted) salaries as well a decline in conditions (such as shortening of vacation, previously provided housing being taken away, etc.). |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
It is the way it is.
If the market demand for teachers at universities is getting smaller...who gets these jobs?
The ones who already have them.
A: I want to be a university lecturer.
B: But there is no demand for more of them now.
A: That isn't fair...to me.
B: Should I give you my job?
A: Yes. I will do a better job than you.
B: Really? You could be right. But I was here first, so *beep* off.
It isn't fair.
No doubt.
Life isn't fair. |
Oh, I see. As long as an unfair rule benefits you, you are cool with it.
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Is this a joke?
Bringing my post into your post makes no sense.
Bringing up this year old thread to make this nonsensical post...really?
Were you drunk and lonely when you put this 'idea' together?
But hey....cheers and happy lunar new year. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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God, shut up you boring idiot. You sound like TheUrbanMyth/thegadfly.
If you have nothing interesting/insightful to say (which is usually the case), say nothing please for the sake of the board.
Nothing about my post was nonsensical. Sorry you couldn't understand it, "professor" Cosmo. (Another example of the pretentious dumbasses working in universities.)
| mr_spivak wrote: |
| They could be picking the wrong person because they have "experience" even if its not good experience. I know of a guy who has "experience" but he was posing sexual questions to female students and had to quit. So technically he would be more qualified for me. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I say this in all seriousness: if I were out of university with a couple of years of ESL teaching under my belt and looking for some serious upside potential, whether in Korea or elsewhere, I'd haul arse back to some place offering a certification program in teaching 3D printing.
The K government is in the process of chucking millions and millions of dollars into 3D education in schools and universities are already developing programs. If history is any lesson, this means that hagwons will be popping up like daisies in springtime as well.
Get in now and keep current. You heard it here first. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
God, shut up you boring idiot. You sound like TheUrbanMyth/thegadfly.
If you have nothing interesting/insightful to say (which is usually the case), say nothing please for the sake of the board.
Nothing about my post was nonsensical. Sorry you couldn't understand it, "professor" Cosmo. (Another example of the pretentious dumbasses working in universities.)
| mr_spivak wrote: |
| They could be picking the wrong person because they have "experience" even if its not good experience. I know of a guy who has "experience" but he was posing sexual questions to female students and had to quit. So technically he would be more qualified for me. |
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Oh. I see. You don't have the logical reasoning skills required to answer why you connected my post, which has nothing to do with your post, to this year old thread.
Feel free not to respond with your overly emotional childishness to any of my posts. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Childish is what you are doing: frequently insulting people without putting forth original/pertinent thoughts of your own. That (and superfluous quoting...and whining about/trying to make a big deal about a nonissue such as the date of a thread) is far more obnoxious.
If you write something on a message board, expect others to respond to it. That's what happens on discussion forums.
Responding to what you wrote is what I did. The word "incidentally" means there was more to follow. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
This is just congestion of the masses.
With competition, more people are trying to get a job. So, what do the rich do? They distance education from people who are not rich.
Children of rich people:
1. will have schools to go to taught by foreigners.
2. will be taught in smaller groups.
3. will have qualifications then to get a job instead of others.
Think of it like going to a concert or fancy restaurant. The VIP seats are being taken, and the rich don't like it. By removing us, it makes the whole "boat" weaker. The rich are not going to stop their children from learning from foreigners though.
When the upper middle class in Korea run out of money to send their children to schools which do have foreigners, then we will see complaints and government intervention. Right now, Korea has too many cooks in their kitchen, too many chiefs.
Give it time to rebound and then there will be empty jobs. Look at the exchange rate now, it's gone up 15% since the big drop around 2008.
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=KRW&view=5Y |
Looking at that chart, the won looks pretty consistent for you guys. Some ups and downs, but mostly within the same range. Looks terrible.
April 23, 2010 - 1108 to the dollar.
February 11, 2015 - 1108 to the dollar.
Asides from 6 months in mid 2014, where it was 1015 to 1020 to the dollar, it doesn't look so great to me. Yet folks stay. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:32 am Post subject: |
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You did have 7 or 8 months in late 2008 and early 2009 where is was more dire, but compared to historical averages, the won has still been pretty bad for the last few years.
Glass half full, I guess?
(May, 2008 and beyond, it looks pretty bad.) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
If the market demand for teachers at universities is getting smaller...who gets these jobs?
The ones who already have them.
A: I want to be a university lecturer.
B: But there is no demand for more of them now.
A: That isn't fair...to me.
B: Should I give you my job?
A: Yes. I will do a better job than you.
B: Really? You could be right. But I was here first, so *beep* off.
It isn't fair.
No doubt.
Life isn't fair. |
Oh, I see. As long as an unfair rule benefits you, you are cool with it.
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Is this a joke?
Bringing my post into your post makes no sense. |
OK, to clarify, rules limiting competition are not good for society. (It's unfair for the students.)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2015/03/621_174891.html
| Quote: |
| A few insisted on asking for extra, unsanctioned weeks off during the school year to attend car races or triathlons, despite our already generous paid vacation. Those professors in question weren't fired, either, even after they took the extra time in breach of contract, with the university having to scramble to find instructors to substitute for their classes. |
| Quote: |
| One professor refused to pay for the utilities, like gas and electricity, though the university apartment itself was free. |
| Quote: |
| Question: what job in America or Canada or Britain would allow any of this without swift termination? None, of course. These professors would never expect to get away with the behavior I've enumerated in their countries of origin. But in Korea, all is fair game. |
The BA+4/MA+2 rule is retarded. It's saying, "If you happened to be in Korea back when university jobs were easy to get, you are qualified to be a professor. If you weren't, you're not."
| Quote: |
| 10 years ago, these jobs were pretty easy to come by and seemingly, almost anyone with a Bachelor’s degree and a couple years of experience at a hagwon (private language institute) or public school in Korea could land one. |
| Quote: |
| Anyone who has been in a Korea for a few years (or a decade in my case) has seen the decline of the ESL industry as a whole. 10 years ago, anyone with a pulse could get a hagwon (private institute job), public school jobs were plentiful and uni jobs were being handed out like candy to those with just a Bachelor's degree and perhaps a year of experience at a public school or hagwon. |
I saw a last minute ad for a university job. The school was desperate (because a teacher bailed last minute) but a BA+4 (or MA+2) was a MUST. Anyone who had that would be automatically hired, no questions asked. Sad |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
If the market demand for teachers at universities is getting smaller...who gets these jobs?
The ones who already have them.
A: I want to be a university lecturer.
B: But there is no demand for more of them now.
A: That isn't fair...to me.
B: Should I give you my job?
A: Yes. I will do a better job than you.
B: Really? You could be right. But I was here first, so *beep* off.
It isn't fair.
No doubt.
Life isn't fair. |
Oh, I see. As long as an unfair rule benefits you, you are cool with it.
|
Is this a joke?
Bringing my post into your post makes no sense. |
OK, to clarify, rules limiting competition are not good for society. (It's unfair for the students.)
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2015/03/621_174891.html
| Quote: |
| A few insisted on asking for extra, unsanctioned weeks off during the school year to attend car races or triathlons, despite our already generous paid vacation. Those professors in question weren't fired, either, even after they took the extra time in breach of contract, with the university having to scramble to find instructors to substitute for their classes. |
| Quote: |
| One professor refused to pay for the utilities, like gas and electricity, though the university apartment itself was free. |
| Quote: |
| Question: what job in America or Canada or Britain would allow any of this without swift termination? None, of course. These professors would never expect to get away with the behavior I've enumerated in their countries of origin. But in Korea, all is fair game. |
The BA+4/MA+2 rule is retarded. It's saying, "If you happened to be in Korea back when university jobs were easy to get, you are qualified to be a professor. If you weren't, you're not."
| Quote: |
| 10 years ago, these jobs were pretty easy to come by and seemingly, almost anyone with a Bachelor’s degree and a couple years of experience at a hagwon (private language institute) or public school in Korea could land one. |
| Quote: |
| Anyone who has been in a Korea for a few years (or a decade in my case) has seen the decline of the ESL industry as a whole. 10 years ago, anyone with a pulse could get a hagwon (private institute job), public school jobs were plentiful and uni jobs were being handed out like candy to those with just a Bachelor's degree and perhaps a year of experience at a public school or hagwon. |
I saw a last minute ad for a university job. The school was desperate (because a teacher bailed last minute) but a BA+4 (or MA+2) was a MUST. Anyone who had that would be automatically hired, no questions asked. Sad |
I will make this as clear as I can to you.
My post made no comment about the new rules.
Period.
You took it out of context and applied misdirection to it to further your rant.
Life isn't fair. That was it. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:58 am Post subject: |
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The obnoxious ass TheMeerkatLover was going on and on about how he is so much better than those not working in a university.
I responded with this:
| World Traveler wrote: |
| TheMeerkatLover wrote: |
| earned our place |
There are people working in top ten universities in Seoul with only an unrelated BA. Why? They got in back when hiring standards were low. It is much easier to keep (stay at) a good university job (in fact you will, unless you are a total screw up) than get in in the first place (especially nowadays). You and others are benefitting from a rule that has universities asking for prior university experience: 2 years for an MA holder and 4 years for a BA holder. How does a person without the prior requisite university experience get in? He can't. You think that is fair? I doubt you are as good at teaching as you think you are. (And that goes for a lot of the other old men posting on Dave's as well.) |
To which you commented directly below:
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| How does a person without the prior requisite university experience get in? He can't. You think that is fair? |
It could be that Chicken Lover is making the point that it isn't about fair.
It is the way it is.
If the market demand for teachers at universities is getting smaller...who gets these jobs?
The ones who already have them.
A: I want to be a university lecturer.
B: But there is no demand for more of them now.
A: That isn't fair...to me.
B: Should I give you my job?
A: Yes. I will do a better job than you.
B: Really? You could be right. But I was here first, so *beep* off.
It isn't fair.
No doubt.
Life isn't fair. |
So yeah (whether you realize it or not I guess) the BA+4/MA+2 rule was being discussed. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| So yeah (whether you realize it or not I guess) the BA+4/MA+2 rule was being discussed. |
I realized that way back on page 4 when I wrote my comment...a year ago.
And the point remains...my comment was not about the rule.
It was about market demand and available jobs...there is a difference.
The fact that you still fail to recognize that difference and slander those that disagree with you is a bit troublesome. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Disagree about what? That the BA+4/MA+2 rule is unfair? It is unfair (to students). Is it or isn't it?
TheMeerkatLover was not making the point life is unfair but rather claiming those who work in universities "earned" their position. How did they "earn" it by slipping in when hiring standards were incredibly low? They didn't. Which is why they should not look down on those newer than them who don't hold a university position. |
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