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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6198947.stm?ls |
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So the New Jury is Going in to Get out THE TRUTH
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH...
Well I know I could not if I ever killed a kid - even in error. Lucky the only small ones I harmed in The Arab Wastes was the Oatmeal Cookie Bars I desrtoyed with relish from my MRE I wish I had one now Maybe I should reenlist in the Marines think the Cookies are Worth going to Iraq and being blown to Heaven from my flaming arse as I rocket out of my seat via a IED? ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6198947.stm?ls
Maybe it was just a bloody mistake... All the smoke and noise and people are always too excited and yelling in these situations... Hey they Are Marines so Maybe they are innocent and the innocents capped were ahhhh just sort of struggling too much errr Well I was not there...
Ahhh my wayward Brothers let the Rage and Hate take them... Or are they innocents who made some mistakes and were offered resistance when entering a hostile house...? Were I but there I would have checked them... To kill a child abed according to the opposition view...
Reminds me of past stories...All right perhaps the Old Sgt in the Somali Road Block days did safeguard himself from knifings by gut butt socking every guy he got out of their vehicle to search .... Mmm it was hot there and the people were throwing rocks at him... Still in My Crusade in the Persian lands I never even shot a camel out of turn let alone harmed an innocent.
I don't know maybe they were fighting back some- Mmmm the surviving girl's testimony can not be taken at face value- I mean it was her family slain. And those House to House fights are jumpy- All the training I did - Enter shoot your corner instantly ahh it is like clockwork - ingrained... It could have been an accident. Perhaps they are innocent at any rate I guess the trail will make a good Jack Nicolson movie... |
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mnhnhyouh
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Although it may be practically impossible to cover-up atrocities inflicted on civilians by U.S. forces, the particularly brutal and urgent nature of the war against Al Quaeda-led terrorists may necessitate further mass-killings of civilians in order to weed out the hard-core fanatics whose mission is to destroy American cities. From a military perspective, whatever tactics are necessary to defeat that enemy should be used at this point - including cover-ups, disinformation and lying propaganda. I don't see a viable political solution on the horizon (but, then again, I'm always pessimistic...) |
Obviously the war in Iraq is now the sort of war that the U.S. has no success in winning, an insurgency.
It is incidents like theone we are talking about that ensure failure.
And what is it with Gophers deleted posts?
h |
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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Mmm yeah it is best to have the populace love you- which may be hard now, or be like Sadam / Stalin / Kim J I / and have fear for you to have peace in the country - there were no huge problems with the Serbs fighting when they new the Russian Bear would tear them and the other side to shreds. But, of course doing it this way is evil since ruling by fear means you must instill this fear through cruel violence and thought police who are also cruel evil ones. As to the deleted posts... ahh I do that all the time when I begin to think how silly I sound and the tiny possibility that someone who I may want a job from will see all my inane nonsense- Mmmm I should go check for links with pictures again - Ha Ha.
But as to the point of my Shock Troop Experts - they must be experts no Pizza Box marksmen- I can only hope ahh they come up with a good reason like ahhh maybe they ummm tried to grab their rifles errrr something... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Things may be different from expected in the Haditha case.
Immunity grants may signal problems with Haditha prosecution
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The list of Marines granted immunity in the Haditha investigation has reportedly grown to at least seven, a sign of a bungled investigation that has prosecutors scrambling to make a case, according to an attorney for a staff sergeant charged with 13 counts of murder.
"There are a lot of problems and it may well be that this list of immunity grants is evidence of that," said Mark Zaid, a Washington, D.C., attorney representing Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich. "There are things about the government's case that have yet to come out that are very troubling." |
Newsmax is even more aggressive. Bombshell cripples case against Haditha Marines
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| Lt. Col. Shelburne, the military defense counsel for Chessani who questioned Lt. Frank, noted, "This officer's testimony is significant. He was on the scene shortly after the attack. He saw the location of the bodies. He personally observed the damage caused by the attack. And yet, he saw nothing that caused him to suspect any wrongdoing on the part of the Marines. Moreover, this officer was given immunity by the government, so the only way he can get in trouble is if he testifies untruthfully." |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Things may be different from expected in the Haditha case. |
I don't know exactly what you mean???? I expected very few people to be accountable and those who were convicted, to do light time. This would be a large improvement over other cases of murder, torture, rape and human rights violations by soldiers in Iraq.
So the case is going exactly as suspected. Further, the article does indeed inquire into the possibility that the prosecution is under duress to "go lite" and thus, the multiple get out of jail free cards.
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| "What surprises me is this increasing number of grants of immunity," Zaid said Friday. "Are they looking to hold only a small number of people accountable for public relations reasons? |
Many of these guys admitted point blank to shooting innocent children, women and men who did not resist. 24 people killed and no signs of any danger to the U.S. soldiers.....they should have the book thrown at them. Instead, they will get their pension in a lump sum and a pat on the back when at the barbeque.
DD |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
24 people killed and no signs of any danger to the U.S. soldiers.....
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The articles posted above dispute that characterization. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher: why did you delete all your posts? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
ddeubel wrote:
24 people killed and no signs of any danger to the U.S. soldiers.....
Kuros replied,
The articles posted above dispute that characterization. |
Kuros,
This is what I hate about your postings/replies. And I will call you on it right now. continually, you comment on something with seeming authority but which betrays the fact you know zilch about it.
I read both articles. The second article has a General, a Major and a Pentagon report as evidence that nothing wrong occured (yet 24 bodies, executed were found and there is on the record evidence of soldiers admitting to shooting others???). Is this not biased?
Simply what is wrong with the system, "trying your own". And this article is Biased Media and a blowhorn for the military. Exactly what is expected from them to get all the guys off with pay/pension and just a "go quietly now my good/godly sons" send off......disgusting.
They should be tried in civilian court or better yet, in Iraq, by Iraqis. The Iraqi people there, who witnessed this in the dozens should be the witnesses, not the bloody guys who did the shooting or the military guys who arrived afterward. What kind of court is this, not even kangaroo but rather Gonzo....
Read the international reports regarding this and get informed....unbiased they are. And stop it with knowingly spreading this progaganda. A shame towards all those innocents executed , just shot like so many "chickens" by young men pumped up to do this.....
The report was extensive but in my mind a whitewash but read it anyways here in brief....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/05/AR2007010502248.html
| Quote: |
The report, which relied on hundreds of interviews with Marines, Iraqi soldiers and civilian survivors conducted months after the incident, presents a fragmented and sometimes conflicting chronicle of the violence that day. But taken together, the accounts provide evidence that as the Marines came under attack, they responded in ways that are difficult to reconcile with their rules of engagement.
Four Marines were charged with murder last month in connection with the civilian deaths in Haditha: Wuterich, who faces 13 counts of unpremeditated murder; Sgt. Sanick P. Dela Cruz; Lance Cpl. Justin L. Sharratt; and Lance Cpl. Stephen B. Tatum. Each faces the possibility of life in prison if convicted. |
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Amnesty International is concerned that military investigations and prosecutions in connection with human rights violations committed by members of the MNF have not met international standards of independence and impartiality. The organisation believes that members of armed forces should not be tried in military courts for crimes under international law. Moreover, while acknowledging the recent investigations into alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians by US troops, including the now-concluded Ishaqi investigation and the ongoing Haditha investigation, Amnesty International is concerned that they are not being investigated by a fully independent body.
Under the international law on territorial jurisdiction, the Iraqi criminal justice system should be able to exercise jurisdiction over any crime committed in Iraq. Amnesty International also notes that the Iraqi authorities have announced their desire to set up their own investigations into the Haditha and Ishaqi attacks.
A review of the MNF mandate could also allow states to help end impunity for serious human rights violations in Iraq, by exercising universal jurisdiction over crimes under international law, including war crimes and crimes against humanity. Where a suspect is a national of a state party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the ICC may have jurisdiction, if no state is able or willing genuinely to investigate and prosecute. |
DD |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I believe these independent investigating organizations are allowed to petition the court to allow testimony and evidence to be presented by them as friends of the court, and that petition if denied can be appealed all the way to the supremes.
cbc |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
[quote="ddeubel"]
| Quote: |
ddeubel wrote:
24 people killed and no signs of any danger to the U.S. soldiers.....
Kuros replied,
The articles posted above dispute that characterization. |
Kuros,
This is what I hate about your postings/replies. And I will call you on it right now. continually, you comment on something with seeming authority but which betrays the fact you know zilch about it. |
Self-righteous twaddle. I have not even staked out a clear or distinct POV, because I do not know about it. Read my comment, I'm only saying that there appears to be more controversey on the issue than you present. Your hatred for me clouds your reading comprehension.
| Quote: |
I read both articles. The second article has a General, a Major and a Pentagon report as evidence that nothing wrong occured (yet 24 bodies, executed were found and there is on the record evidence of soldiers admitting to shooting others???). Is this not biased?
Simply what is wrong with the system, "trying your own". And this article is Biased Media and a blowhorn for the military. Exactly what is expected from them to get all the guys off with pay/pension and just a "go quietly now my good/godly sons" send off......disgusting.
They should be tried in civilian court or better yet, in Iraq, by Iraqis. The Iraqi people there, who witnessed this in the dozens should be the witnesses, not the bloody guys who did the shooting or the military guys who arrived afterward. What kind of court is this, not even kangaroo but rather Gonzo.... |
Having Iraqis try American troops is at least equally as problematic as having the American military try American troops. You may say the Iraqis deserve justice, but I would say American troops deserve a fair trial.
Let me reveal my POV, so you can attack it rather than some phantom. I believe that giving seven immunities in a trial like this is a sign of desperation for the prosecution. I believe that it is possible that insurgents made things more complex, but I am not sure of anything since I am not on the ground.
Lastly, Newsmax does sound biased so I went for a second source. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros, I have no "hatred". I might bend to hatred of those I know. I don't know you at all, so that isn't part of this. Anger? Yes, anger for the aforementioned reasons and also anger at anyone who'd try to twist things to make it seem like this case is anything but a "cover your ass" story.
I suggest you read Toads few posts above. He outlines (satirically) how the U.S. military is so wrong not using Iraqi eyewitnesses as "material" witnesses.... What, I saw them shoot my mother and now I can't even have my day in court with this scum?????
Further, I think that any barely sharp minded individual can see that the granting of immunity to witnesses DOES NOT show that there is no case on the prosecution side. It only shows how stupid and illegitimate it is to have only military men debating each other about charges of "murder" and crimes against humanity. The witnesses should be whoever were there, not fellow soldiers. Also, it points to the fact that there is pressure on the prosecution side to just cut down the losses/end verdicts and make this sort of "lite".....
How hypocritical of the U.S. to go into Iraq and then not obey their pronouncements about democracy and rule of law. Iraqis voted and want the U.S. out -- but the admin. keeps them there, ugh?????? What happened to democracy? The Iraqis set up courts and a judiciary but does that mean the U.S. citizens should fall under that great edifice? No. They are exempt, military and non military. What hypocricy, never mind that as a sovereign nations, Iraq does have the right to prosecute these soldiers to the full extent possible. That they do not, just shows what a puppet show it all is......
Meanwhile there is the surviving little girl, here whole family destroyed by a grenade thrown into a building and then bursts of gunfire, fired into the family indiscriminantly, blindly. Why? Well, because of these young men given a license to kill . Why? A lot because the U.S. citizen is just not doing its thing. Putting pressure on the government, speaking up and demanding......
That to me is the fall guy through all this fiasco and continuing. The U.S. citizenry has abdicated its citizen rights, those enshrined in its founding document and a duty to all citizens. To rally against tyranny and injustice.
DD |
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