|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Bulsajo wrote: |
But there is still no escaping the fact that trying to have a rational discussion with you is like trying explain algebra to a hamster- you simply don't have the capacity for any real thoughts. |
Yet you still acknowledge him and respond to his posts.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
I know, I know.
And to make matters worse, my hamster has been sleeping through my algebra lessons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Your motives are transparent. Deny it all you like: from the beginning you have stood with the terrorists and against Israel and the U.S. You share their worldview. |
Gopher, I share my own world view. That view is about seeing things through a culturally neutral lense (as much as is possible). That means respecting the cultural autonomy and ways of other cultures and not ad hoc, demanding they be like us.
I don't support violence unless it is about protecting the women and children on your door step. I decry Hezbollah as well as Israel. But when you make point blank statements about Arabs/Muslims and also state garbage like Hezbollah is not a part of Lebanese life............you are to be called to task.
Your other post , cheerleading the continued labeling of Muslims in total as "jew" haters is of the same vein. Wrong and it does no good. It objectifies others, and this same objectification is the point, the energy ball from which all war rings.
With your ethnocentric attitude, with your NPR source and diet of U.S.A supported literature, no wonder you see the world as you do. No wonder you view ANYONE who doesn't chant your own party line and world view as "terrorist". What kind of world do you live in, want to live in? Where anyone not like you is a terrorist? You can have it. The world is much more complex and consists of over 6 billion individuals. Keep thinking they are lump sums and pieces pushed across war charts and think tank board room tables....
About Hezbollah, please withdraw your comments stating that Israel is protecting Lebanon, helping Lebanon , to rid it of Hezbollah. The Lebanese prime minister, the people there, think differently. They KNOW differently. Israel actions are also targeting civilians, Lebanese army and infrastructure which have nothing to do with Hezbollah.
But then again, what's the difference in your worldview, Hezbollah, Lebanese, they are all just Anti Israel, rabid terrorists.
DD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ddeubel wrote: |
| That means respecting the cultural autonomy and ways of other cultures and not ad hoc, demanding they be like us. |
Show me where I have said anything like this -- that the Arab Middle East needs to be like "us."
| ddeubel wrote: |
| ...you make point blank statements about Arabs/Muslims and also state garbage like Hezbollah is not a part of Lebanese life...you are to be called to task. |
Show me where I have said that Hezbollah is not a part of Lebanese life, at least South Lebanon.
| ddeubel wrote: |
Your other post, cheerleading the continued labeling of Muslims in total as "jew" haters is of the same vein. Wrong and it does no good. It objectifies others, and this same objectification is the point, the energy ball from which all war rings.
With your ethnocentric attitude... |
Lose the postmodernist drivel and speak plainly.
Besides, sufficient number of Muslims and the Arab Middle East are Jew-haters and intolerant of Israel that I have said nothing unreasonable here.
| ddeubel wrote: |
| No wonder you view ANYONE who doesn't chant your own party line and world view as "terrorist". |
As usual, you blatantly mischarachterize my views.
I do not view "anyone who doesn't chant my own party line" as a terrorist. I do, however, note that you repeat their assertions about the U.S. and Israel being to blame for all that is wrong in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world.
| ddeubel wrote: |
| Keep thinking they are lump sums and pieces pushed across war charts and think tank board room tables... |
Either you have never engaged me honestly enough to actually stop your postmodernist nonsense long enough to listen to my point of view, or you are simply lying about it (again).
| ddeubel wrote: |
| About Hezbollah, please withdraw your comments stating that Israel is protecting Lebanon, helping Lebanon , to rid it of Hezbollah. The Lebanese prime minister, the people there, think differently. They KNOW differently. Israel actions are also targeting civilians, Lebanese army and infrastructure which have nothing to do with Hezbollah. |
This may be one of the most pretentions comments I have seen yet.
Who are you to speak for the Lebanese people or even the Lebanese prime minister and what they think or know?
In any case, I do not think it is so outrageous to ask the Lebanese govt, Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran to comply with Security Council Resolution 1559 and 1583, do you?
| ddeubel wrote: |
| ...in your worldview, Hezbollah, Lebanese, they are all just Anti-Israel, rabid terrorists. |
Hezbollah, yes.
The Lebanese, no.
Show me where I have alleged or implied that the Lebanese are all just antiIsraeli terrorists. Again, you mischaracterize my views for the sake of setting up your straw man to knock it down.
Finally, to summarize, I see the current manifestation of the Arab-Israeli Conflict as the result of several factors and ultimate causes: much of the Arab Middle East refuses to tolerate the existence of Israel; indeed, much of the Arab Middle East demands the annihilation of Isreal; Israeli responses to this threat, over time, has contributed to the problem; and in this particular event we see Syria attempting to reassert its position in Lebanese politics and at the same time Iran attempting to distract world opinion so that it might continue developing nuclear energy and weapons unmolested.
You, on the other hand, merely repeat the Hezbollan, Palestinian, Syrian, and Iranian analyses of this -- that is, that Israel (and behind Tel Aviv, U.S. bias in the region's politics) is to blame for everything. You do not even deign to acknowledge Hezbollah's specific manner of provoking the current crisis or Syria and Iran's very probable complicity.
Caught in the middle of this are the Lebanese, Israeli, and Palestinian people who deserve none of what they are getting, as well as a newly-emerging independent Lebanese govt, which deserves a chance to operate outside of Syrian oversight.
I propose, then, that we agree to disagree as our positions on this are not reconcilable. And I will protest that parting with you in this way on this issue gives you more respect than I think you deserve.
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bush today:
| Quote: |
| "In order to be able to deal with this crisis, the world must deal with Hezbollah, with Syria and to continue to work to isolate Iran," Bush said. |
Isolate?? Come on Bush.. Weak.
Bush Says Syria Wants Back in Lebanon |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Bush today:
| Quote: |
| "In order to be able to deal with this crisis, the world must deal with Hezbollah, with Syria and to continue to work to isolate Iran," Bush said. |
Isolate?? Come on Bush.. Weak.
Bush Says Syria Wants Back in Lebanon |
Sounds like he's learning to be diplomatic. If he said he wanted to bomb it back to the Stone Age, can you imagine the outcry? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
NPR's profile on Nasrallah is available here...
| Quote: |
| In April [2006], he warned that his operatives would seek to abduct Israeli soldiers. And on July 12, his warning was realized. Hezbollah operatives, under the guidance of Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, staged a deadly, cross-border raid into Israel that left eight Israeli soldiers dead and two abducted. If he survives the current cross-border fighting, Nasrallah, leader of the terrorist group Hezbollah, could emerge as one of the most influential leaders in the Arab world. Here's a brief look at his past and present actions... |
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5566717 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
| The 'blame game' or 'who is the least/most cruel and inhumane in the conflict' is pretty much irrelevant here- Israel can't help but respond in the manner that it has, and has very little choice in its response. |
While i essentially agree with your "blame game" remarks, to say the Israeli military "can't help but respond" in the fashion they have is pure poppycock.
I'm likely not alone when i say i literally cringe when i hear this catchphrase mindlessly repeated on CNN and the like.
Let's just back up a moment.
What "pretext" did they use for this aggressive & widespread bombardment? The kidnapping of the a handful of their soldiers.
Hezbollah's request? A prisoner exchange.
Israel's response? NO!!! WE'RE NOW WE'RE SIMPLY GONNA KILL KILL KILL !!! Yeah, that's sure to get our poor soldiers free.
What happened to negotiations & diplomacy? Why so immediately resort to engaging in widespead regional terror?
Clearly SOMEBODY WANTED WAR 
Given the body count that's arisen over the last week, they indeed appear to be a doing a mighty fine job of executing their plans.
What's especially distressful is how civilian pawns on ALL sides are being swept up in the midst of this bloody
C-O-C-K waving tempest. |
We all know you're a moron, there's no need to flaunt it.
If you weren't such an idiot I'd tell you to read up on hezbollah, the Iran-Contra affair, etc.
I'm not absolving Israel of all responsibility and to repeat myself what I meant by the 'blame game' is: trying to determine who is 'more responsible' is a fool's game (which clearly explains your aptitude), but Hamas and Hezbollah clearly knew what sort of reaction their actions would provoke from Israel.
But there is still no escaping the fact that trying to have a rational discussion with you is like trying explain algebra to a hamster- you simply don't have the capacity for any real thoughts. |
Childish insults aside, what's your point ... Bully?
Anything regarding the issues?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Bush today:
| Quote: |
| "In order to be able to deal with this crisis, the world must deal with Hezbollah, with Syria and to continue to work to isolate Iran," Bush said. |
Isolate?? Come on Bush.. Weak.
Bush Says Syria Wants Back in Lebanon |
Sounds like he's learning to be diplomatic. If he said he wanted to bomb it back to the Stone Age, can you imagine the outcry? |
how about, "We will use any means necessary to ensure crisis such as this will not occur in the future; the responsible parties will be held accountable."
pretty diplomatic I'd say and a little more forceful. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Anything regarding the issues? |
You raised issues in your post?
That's a knee-slapper.
But you seem to think that the Israelis were evil to not give in to a 'prisoner' exchange. You and anyone else who thinks that has forgotten Iran/contra and the kidnappings in the region during the 80s. More fool you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How effective is Israel's offensive?
| Quote: |
| Hizbullah's Katyusha rockets are still hitting northern Israel at the rate of more than 100 a day, and it still has a heavily armed presence on the border. |
Hmm, that doesn't sound good.
| Quote: |
"For eight days, the Israeli defence forces have been pounding Lebanon and dropping thousands of tonnes of bombs on it, yet Hizbullah remains the same intransigent rival as before. It is showing no signs of breaking," Amos Harel wrote in the Haaretz newspaper yesterday. He said it would be difficult for Israel to stop the operation and still show any real political achievements. Significant civilian casualties in northern Israel, or among the military, could lessen the considerable public support within Israel for the war.
In the Ma'ariv newspaper, Amir Rappaport warned that the fight would escalate. "The second Lebanon war will be accompanied by tough battles on the ground. We hope that there will not be many more casualties, but yesterday's hard fighting was certainly only the beginning." |
Analysts say Israel has not seriously damaged Hizbullah
Looks like they're going to launch a land invasion:
| Quote: |
ON THE ISRAEL-LEBANON BORDER -
Israel massed tanks and troops on the border Friday hours after calling up reserves and confirmed some units were already operating in Lebanon, as the army announced plans for a ground operation to destroy Hezbollah's tunnels, hideouts and weapons stashes. |
Yahoo News Article
While I understand the reasons behind such a maneuver, I wonder if Israel will be effective whatsoever. Guerilla groups are hard to eliminate, and there is no way Israel will win over the locals of south lebanon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bucheon Bum wrote: |
| Guerilla groups are hard to eliminate, and there is no way Israel will win over the locals of South Lebanon. |
Imperial Rome eventually decided the only way to eliminate the chronic threat Carthage posed to its security was to raze that North African city to the ground once and for all.
The world has changed much since then, however. But irreconciliable conflicts continue to present themselves.
(Please do not reference this and wail and cry and reprint a hippie love poem, Ddeubel. I know this is an ugly thing that I reference.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| Bucheon Bum wrote: |
| Guerilla groups are hard to eliminate, and there is no way Israel will win over the locals of South Lebanon. |
Imperial Rome eventually decided the only way to eliminate the chronic threat Carthage posed to its security was to raze that North African city to the ground once and for all.
The world has changed much since then, however. But irreconciliable conflicts continue to present themselves.
(Please do not reference this and wail and cry and reprint a hippie love poem, Ddeubel. I know this is an ugly thing that I reference.) |
You forgot the part where they salted the earth. I always thought that was damned vicious. And pretty cool.
�S� |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Imperial Rome eventually decided the only way to eliminate the chronic threat Carthage posed to its security was to raze that North African city to the ground once and for all.
The world has changed much since then, however. But irreconciliable conflicts continue to present themselves.
(Please do not reference this and wail and cry and reprint a hippie love poem, Ddeubel. I know this is an ugly thing that I reference.) |
I'm glad you don't advocate that as a "final solution". Nor should Israel but it seems they are leaning that way and it is horrific (whatever the "terror" they've endured ). The world hasn't changed much but we can temporarily learn from history before the amnesia steps in and time that great slave master, forever keeps us at his whip and command.....
I won't post a "hippie" love poem but since you asked, something of Rumi, a poet who should be listened to / read during this turbulent times. Hespeaks honestly and directly to each human being.
| Quote: |
These spiritual window-shoppers,
who idly ask, 'How much is that?' Oh, I'm just looking.
They handle a hundred items and put them down,
shadows with no capital.
What is spent is love and two eyes wet with weeping.
But these walk into a shop,
and their whole lives pass suddenly in that moment,
in that shop.
Where did you go? "Nowhere."
What did you have to eat? "Nothing much."
Even if you don't know what you want,
buy something to be part of the exchanging flow.
Start a huge, foolish project,
like Noah.
It makes absolutely no difference
what people think of you. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
