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Do you want Reunification?
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Do you want the 2 koreas to reunite?

Yes

71%

[ 25 ]

28%

[ 10 ]

Total Votes : 35

Author

Message

newton kabiddles

Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject:

The leader does not want to go to jail so he needs USFK to leave. He is wise one.

spliff

Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject:

Yes, more opportunities...

pest2

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject:

jinju wrote:

pest2 wrote:

jinju wrote:

RACETRAITOR wrote:

jinju wrote:

pest2 wrote:

Best thing would be if the USFK left Korea the day after I left and then the North attacked the next hour...

and you are a sicko.

Hell yeah.

Not only that, hes a little cowardly *beep* too. Pest, why wouldnt you want the Norks to attack when you are here? So you could get your poopy diapers out safely? Ever see that movie where the kids cheat death when they get off the plane that crashes leter on? Death comes for them. Your poopy pampers would get the boot, dont you worry.

Oh, come on you nanny poo poo name calling babies. I am saying this:

1) I dont want my tax money being paid to support this country -- Even if that support comes as an unintended consequence. For example, I have some friends here who are in the army. My own government is paying some Korean landlords 2.5~3.5 million won each month to rent them apartments out on the town. Even if we (think) we need to keep troops in this part of the world to maintain global hegemony and/or a growing bipolar threat... I dont want MY money to pay for it. Insofar as geostrategic concerns go, if we really think it is necessary, we can put our forces in Okinawa and Japan for the same effect.

2) The total effect of the USFK is not that great. There are about 50-60,000 troops here but Korea has its own standing army of more than 10x that figure. The North Koreans have about 1 million troops. Our departure would affect them most gravely insofar as lost advisors and certain aspects of technology they cannot provide for themselves. But in terms of sheer manpower, the effect would not be signficant.

3) An invasion of the South by the North, were it ever to occur, would probably be the ONLY way they'd ever reunify. Negotiations have already been going on for so many years and with very very little headway made. Negotiatiors on both sides have proven themselves to be negotiating to decieve time and time again, even with the aid of foriegn mediators and interlocutors. I say cut to the chase. An invasion in and of itself does not imply any certain outcome... it just get the inevitable out of the way.

4) Koreans are highly social and heirarchical and their values conform quite nicely to the likes of socialism. The main reason the North has remained so poor is not that they are socialist,... but rather, it is the fact that they are closed and run by a rigid totalitarian communist government. The ideological underpinnings of communism still coincide much better with Koreans than, say, Russians or Chinese... If any country could succeed with communism, it would be Korea... especially if that communism came in the form of 'plans' ... the way China is currently doing it ie with massive free trade in certain zones to increase economic flow, first, and then social welfare spending later (presumably).

5) DUH I dont wanna be here when it happens. Its not my conflict, not my problem... and in the end, I could care less about what happens to Korea, after I leave, than I care about finding my hamster that escaped from its cage a few hours ago and is currently hiding somewhere in my apartment.

Thats a thorough analysis. Too bad its by the same guy who wrote this amazing piece of totally wrong crap

Quote:

Presumably, unified Korea > no need for US military aid.

P.S. if Korea got attacked wouldnt you atleast feel bad for a female you had a relationship with? OH WAIT, crap, what am I thinking..I bet you never even got laid in Korea.

Yeah Jinju, I know you want to stick for all those da bang girls you banged, but Im sure most of will get through the invasion so dont worry about that. You can always work in Taiwan but you wont get your own apartment but dems da brakes.

Yes, if Korea is unified and self-sustaining and we need to have a military presence in this geostrategic region, as I already said, why cant Japan (with whom we signed a treaty limiting their arms build up at the end of WW2, no less; so there's a valid reason to keep troops there) do the trick?

Also, to add to it, the hurting economy of the US means we dont have the luxury(??) of being able playing the role as the world police anymore. We put troops in so many other places... we are spread too thin as it is and that is yet another reason to take troops/money away from areas that dont really really need it now. Now for all you Canadians and others out there... feel free to resort once again to your position that the mighty USA is so bad and always trying to bully everyone but WAIT then you'd be hypocrites with respect to keeping troops in Korea, wouldnt you? Why dont yawl send your own money and people here?

Last edited by pest2 on Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject:

newton kabiddles wrote:

The North Korean ladies are the most beautiful in the world - prettier than even South Korean ladies. Can you believe it? North Korean men are very small and not attractive, South Korean men are more handsome. When Korea unifies South Korean men can take a nice Korean wife from North Korea and we won't need anymore foreign brides, like Vietnamese or Filipino. Foreign brides have many problems with Korean men and it causes violence in the Korean family. So when we unify there will be more peace in the family.

What???

So what happens to the South Korean Women and North Korean Men? Who do they marry?

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject:

well as an irish person i hate hearing foreigners opinions on irish unity. so maybe koreans are the same. but saying that,ill go with yes, just because its a change and it would be interesting to see what would happen.

Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject:

LuckyNomad wrote:

It won't be unification, it'll be absorbtion.
I don't think there will be a clear point at which the two countries become unified. It'll be gradual economic absorbtion by the South, similar to the way the Japanese took over Korea. First they build the trains and build the factories. Then they start buying the property, taking over the banks and the media. I'm guessing it'll be around 2040 or 2050 when Korea is Korea again.

Thats probably the likeliest scenario, a gradual transition.
There are conflicting angles presented on the summit, but increasing economic co-operation can be the only viable future for both DPRK and ROK I think. I hear the developers are already sizing up the cheorwon area near the DMZ this week and property values there are suddenly rising.

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject:

pest2 wrote:

Let's examine this paragraph, shall we? First you don't want your tax money to be spent here. Fine and dandy. How much of the money spent here is from your taxes, anyway? It can't be all that much given the population of the US and the amount of tax money actually spent here.

Next, you say you don't want the landlord to be paid rent. That's absurd. The landlord is providing a place for someone to live. The simple fact of the matter is that there is not enough housing available on the bases for the military and their families who are stationed here.

Next is your comment about global hegemony. Nice use of a Soviet-era Soviet propoganda term, though.

Finally, the same effect cannot be obtained from stationing the troops in Okinawa or the main islands of Japan. It takes time to move troops and equipment, especially via ship.

Quote:

2) The total effect of the USFK is not that great. There are about 50-60,000 troops here but Korea has its own standing army of more than 10x that figure. The North Koreans have about 1 million troops. Our departure would affect them most gravely insofar as lost advisors and certain aspects of technology they cannot provide for themselves. But in terms of sheer manpower, the effect would not be signficant.

Are you often in the habit of ignoring yourself? Yes, the effect in terms of manpower may not be all that great; however, the technology gap is great.

Quote:

3) An invasion of the South by the North, were it ever to occur, would probably be the ONLY way they'd ever reunify.

That's one theory and it's completely unsupported by the facts on the ground.

Quote:

Negotiations have already been going on for so many years and with very very little headway made. Negotiatiors on both sides have proven themselves to be negotiating to decieve time and time again, even with the aid of foriegn mediators and interlocutors. I say cut to the chase. An invasion in and of itself does not imply any certain outcome... it just get the inevitable out of the way.

The negotiators from the North do not have the same level of authority that those from the South have had over the years. The main objective of the North, for quite some time, in the negotiations when they've occurred is simply to keep their regime in power.

Quote:

4) Koreans are highly social and heirarchical and their values conform quite nicely to the likes of socialism. The main reason the North has remained so poor is not that they are socialist,... but rather, it is the fact that they are closed and run by a rigid totalitarian communist government. The ideological underpinnings of communism still coincide much better with Koreans than, say, Russians or Chinese... If any country could succeed with communism, it would be Korea... especially if that communism came in the form of 'plans' ... the way China is currently doing it ie with massive free trade in certain zones to increase economic flow, first, and then social welfare spending later (presumably).

What a load of racist malarkey.

Quote:

5) DUH I dont wanna be here when it happens. Its not my conflict, not my problem... and in the end, I could care less about what happens to Korea, after I leave, than I care about finding my hamster that escaped from its cage a few hours ago and is currently hiding somewhere in my apartment.

Since you don't care about the people here and don't want any money supporting the locals, why are you even here and, more importantly, why are you spending any money at all here?

pest2

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject:

CentralCali wrote:

pest2 wrote:

The amount of money the USA spends on defense is staggering. Every cent counts.

USA paying Korea for rent. Plain and simple. 1) Korea, of all countries, doesnt deserve the business for their inherent closedness and 2) we can do more to spend the same money at home and help our own economy this way ie contribute to our own economic flow model not theirs. If you cant understand this... well... what else is there to say?

Words like "global hegemony" are (still) used quite commonly in the study of political science. When I got (one of) my degree(s) in political science just 8 years ago, those terms were still being used in current academic publications. Dont believe it then punch it into google and see what you get...

So you are saying that because it takes time and money, we should not move our troops out of Korea ever at all until the end of time? Do you foresee having the troops here in 100 years? How about 200? Your argument assumes we will always want and need troops here and I am saying we dont want or need them here right now.

Quote:

Are you often in the habit of ignoring yourself? Yes, the effect in terms of manpower may not be all that great; however, the technology gap is great.

I dont get what you're saying about ignoring myself. Yep, there is a (great? not really, but existing) technology gap. What's your point? Its still not going to matter that much.

Quote:

3) An invasion of the South by the North, were it ever to occur, would probably be the ONLY way they'd ever reunify.

That's one theory and it's completely unsupported by the facts on the ground.

And what facts are those? I've given you some compelling facts to support my theory; namely that they have already had over 50 years to reunify and it still hasnt happened... the same deception and back-treading that occured before is still occuring now. Either Korea will never reunify, or it will happen as the result of an invasion. What are your "facts on the ground"?

Quote:

And that is different from now because?

Quote:

What a load of racist malarkey.

Koreans have a certain history, as a people, that is apart from their genetic code. That history and the values/rules/ideas (aka, culture) of Koreans are similar in many ways with communism. That is not to say an american-born-Korean is innately prone to becoming a communist! God, do you really think thats racism? race not= culture

Quote:

Since you don't care about the people here and don't want any money supporting the locals, why are you even here and, more importantly, why are you spending any money at all here?

I am here to work and do a job and save money, at this point. I spend "any money" here, the small amount of it I do spend, for life-necessities such as food, gas, etc.. I am not here to provide a charity to Korea. Even moreso this is the case given the way Koreans react to/ feel about/ treat anyone who is not Korean.

Last edited by pest2 on Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject:

-transportation options from the south to mainland Asia -reduced prices in the South due to cheaper labor costs and goods imported by truck or rail?? -a huge land rush in the north by wealthy South Koreans; massive construction factories, vacation homes, golf courses, ski resorts etc. -cheaper/better recreation and leisure options for South koreans -epidemic prostitution using poor North Korean women -streets in the South full of beggars and migrant workers .... ....

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject:

I know a former 'Nam vet who came to Asia to teach, first in ROK, then Thailand, and most recently he's opened an ESL school in Saigon. That sort of blows my mind, when I think about it. Me, I'd love to open a school in Pyeongyang ... that would be cool.

RACETRAITOR

Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:49 am Post subject:

"I'm tired of Korean racism. I hope they all die horribly." Yeah, yeah. 14/88, whatever.

newton kabiddles

Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:21 am Post subject:

nateium wrote:

newton kabiddles wrote:

What???

So what happens to the South Korean Women and North Korean Men? Who do they marry?

There's a shortage of South Koren women and North Korean men...Everybody know that! After unification all will become balanced.

Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:04 am Post subject:

newton kabiddles wrote:

There's a shortage of South Koren women and North Korean men.

Don't they exercise a grim preference for little boys up north?

nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject:

newton kabiddles wrote:

nateium wrote:

newton kabiddles wrote:

What???

So what happens to the South Korean Women and North Korean Men? Who do they marry?

There's a shortage of South Koren women and North Korean men...Everybody know that! After unification all will become balanced.

Really? DPRK looks like it's becoming unbalanced in favor of males like in the South, and is more unbalanced in favor of women in the upper age brackets. Guess, both groups of men will still need foreign brides 10-20 years from now.

Age structure DPRK
0-14 years: 23.3% (male 2,758,826/female 2,679,093)
15-64 years: 68.1% (male 7,852,282/female 8,024,429)
65 years and over: 8.5% (male 709,599/female 1,277,496) (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/kn.html

Age structure ROK
0-14 years: 18.3% (male 4,714,103/female 4,262,873)
15-64 years: 72.1% (male 18,004,719/female 17,346,594)
65 years and over: 9.6% (male 1,921,803/female 2,794,698) (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ks.html

Last edited by nateium on Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total

sjrm

Joined: 27 Jul 2005

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject:

It won't be easy if they do get back together. Germany is still having a few problems after reuniting, and that was 17 years ago. Korea would face a lot more problems, though, whereas it looks as if North Korea is much poorer than East Germany was.

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