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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Gels with some of his earlier sentiments in Bengali in Platforms,
Bengali, bengali
Bengali, bengali
Oh, shelve your western plans
And understand
That life is hard enough when you belong here
He's right in his observation, but whether he's being anti-immigrant or not would depend on the context. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| I guess he's forgotten he's the son of Irish immigrants who himself emigrated to the US and Italy. |
I would say that Irish immigration (due to cultural similarities) does not have the same impact on cultural identity as say immigration from Bangladesh. The Irish spoke English, ate the same bland food, and went to the same pubs, by and large, and within a generation, were almost completely assimilated. They did not change the feel and look of entire urban areas, in the same way that immigrants from the subcontinent have. Parts of Bradford for example, feel more like Karachi than England, minus the overcast weather. Of course, there are those who will immediately shout bigot or racist to any comment on immigration that does not speak of it in glowing terms.
Last edited by bigverne on Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Immigrants drink tea and say "*beep*" like everyone else in the UK |
Yes, because that's all English culture is, isn't it? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| I guess he's forgotten he's the son of Irish immigrants who himself emigrated to the US and Italy. |
I would say that Irish immigration (due to cultural similarities) does not have the same impact on cultural identity as say immigration from Bangladesh. The Irish spoke English, ate the same bland food, and went to the same pubs, by and large, and within a generation, were almost completely assimilated. They did not change the feel and look of entire urban areas, in the same way that immigrants from the subcontinent have. Parts of Bradford for example, feel more like Karachi than England, minus the overcast weather. Of course, there are those who will immediately shout bigot or racist to any comment on immigration that does not speak of it in glowing terms. |
What you mean is ...Irish are white.
Where would England be without Indian food for gods sakes? England without curry would be hell. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| Immigrants drink tea and say "*beep*" like everyone else in the UK |
Yes, because that's all English culture is, isn't it? |
That and the football riots |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I guess he's forgotten he's the son of Irish immigrants who himself emigrated to the US and Italy. |
I would say that Irish immigration (due to cultural similarities) does not have the same impact on cultural identity as say immigration from Bangladesh. |
And how do you feel about British immigration to Bangladesh? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I guess he's forgotten he's the son of Irish immigrants who himself emigrated to the US and Italy. |
I would say that Irish immigration (due to cultural similarities) does not have the same impact on cultural identity as say immigration from Bangladesh. |
And how do you feel about British immigration to Bangladesh? |
I imagine that if such a ludicrous phenomenon did occur, it would cause huge social problems, as Brits would be just as unlikely to assimilate into Bengali culture as they are into ours, and many Bengali towns and cities would start to feel distinctly less Bengali and more British. I also imagine the vast majority of socially conservative, Muslim Bengalis would be vehemently opposed to the presence of alcohol consuming, socially permisive Brits. Some cultures just don't mix very well, others do. This is a very simple concept completely lost on die hard multiculturalists. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Where is our boy?
Oh we've lost our boy
But they should know where you've gone
because again an again you've explained
you're going tooooo
the national
frrrront disco!
Middle finger up to those that opine Morrissey isn't one of the best song-writers / singers in the world.
His comments on immigration though are around 20 years too late if he was worried about preserving the feel of England being English.
It lost that years back... Some parts of Bradford, Leicester, Birmingham, London etc have been mulitcultural for so long now, that sorry Mozza -
But that IS ENGLAND now... |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: |
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bangladeshis make up 0.5% of the UKs population. Im not sure what the fuss is all about with them.
Some immigrants invariably assimilate better than others (Indian, Chinese etc) but there are so many different types of immigrants in the UK at the moment, and London in particular, its difficult to know how to categorise them and where to start. Immigration in the UK does not necessarily mean 'coloured' as it once did ie after WW2.
Im not saying I agree with Morrissey (yes I am a Smiths fan lol) but in a funny way I do understand where he is coming from with all this and there are many people that would concur with him. But that doesnt mean that he is a facist racist etc etc as people are all too quickly to label as another poster has already remarked.
The politiking of race and race relations has to change as well. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I guess he's forgotten he's the son of Irish immigrants who himself emigrated to the US and Italy. |
I would say that Irish immigration (due to cultural similarities) does not have the same impact on cultural identity as say immigration from Bangladesh. |
And how do you feel about British immigration to Bangladesh? |
I imagine that if such a ludicrous phenomenon did occur, |
I see you missed about 200 years in your history class. Look up the history of Bangladesh from 1757-1947. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I guess he's forgotten he's the son of Irish immigrants who himself emigrated to the US and Italy. |
I would say that Irish immigration (due to cultural similarities) does not have the same impact on cultural identity as say immigration from Bangladesh. |
And how do you feel about British immigration to Bangladesh? |
I imagine that if such a ludicrous phenomenon did occur, |
I see you missed about 200 years in your history class. Look up the history of Bangladesh from 1757-1947. |
Hang on a minute, mate. I'm more dumb than a rock and I'd be the first to admit it....but, didn't the Brits colonize the Bangladeshians as opposed to emigrate? |
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StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the British identity is changing...
I�d say that the issues with this stem from the fact that modern Britons don�t have a true identity engrained throughout society... British identity is a derivative of a number of other identities that emigrated at one point or another... besides birth, if I look back to my grandparents then I�m only � British.... Germans on the other hand are inherently German... they have a substantial immigrant population and while they assimilate fairly well, German culture remains distinctly German... they wouldn�t have it any other way... in the UK however it is perceived more as a threat... there�s essentially a power struggle as to which way the British identity goes next...
The issue within the UK isn�t so much based on colour or nationality, it�s based on inability to assimilate within the current environment... being tolerant of others is cool, but when it starts becoming impractical or the other parties are unwilling to adopt the ways of the country they chose to emigrate to, then you have to start asking questions... lack of English ability is also a biggie, as is trying to assimilate folk whose religious beliefs are so fundamentally different its just not plausible... |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| I see you missed about 200 years in your history class. Look up the history of Bangladesh from 1757-1947. |
That, as someone has already pointed out, was colonization. During that period British people emigrated, in their millions, to North America, Australia, New Zealand, where their descendants still remain. Please remind me, what is the current British descended population of Bangladesh? Moreover, what point exactly are you trying to make? Because Britain once colonised parts of the third world, we must accomodate millions upon millions of unassimilable people onto our tiny island? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Britain was built on waves of immigrants. That is its history. From Romans, Vikings, Normans and Protestants etc.
Why suddenly object now? I'm glad that Britain is a melting pot, long may it continue. So a new British culture is being formed: great. Don't forget Britain helped itself to living in everyone elses countries during colonialisation. What you have now is only just, a return wave.
I wish more countries were like that. i'd love to see Korea inundated with people of different cultures, it sure needs it. I'm all for nations becoming as multicultural as possible.
Last edited by Junior on Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Some attention has to be focused on what immigrants - especially those from the Caribbean and Indian subcontinent who arrived after the war - have brought to the UK. But people never ever do this. The Sun reading public of the UK would rather watch eastenders or big brother then actually give history the credence it deserves.
The UK was desimated in large parts after World War II and a lot of the country's core labourforce and infrastructure were in ruins. This cannot be denied.
The generation of immigrants in the immediate aftermath of WWII did things like rebuild roads and buildings, work in hospitals as nurses, work in both steal and coal mines, textile and other factories, drove buses and a variety of other labour based industries, worked on ships and generally did many unskilled jobs because the UK simply didn't have the numbers to keep these industries alive and also needed to do this in order to aid economic recovery post WWII: FACT.
Compare this to the new kind of immigrants entering the UK like the masses of southern hemis between 21 and 35 undercutting the graduates of today in London or the eastern europeans that are undercutting the UK tradesmen. Like I said in the post before, immigration in the UK is a complex issue and constantly addressing 0.5% of the population that happens to be Bangladeshi isnt going to get anyone -on either side of the fence- anywhere.
Last edited by stevieg4ever on Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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