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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Can you find no examples in our culture of art being used for similar purposes?
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Sure, and if one of those artists produced a piece of art similar to a previous piece of art that had resulted in death threats to the artist, I'd have to conclude that that artist produced her piece with the full expectation of getting death threats. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Art or not, antagonizing speech is protected. Rush Limbaugh is a perfect example. The right to be a jackass should be inalienable.
It would seem that Ya-ta is indirectly making the argument that the speech of those that would goad muslim extremists should be treated the same way the speech of a person that yells fire in a movie theatre is treated. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough. One might expect to receive death threats when dealing with them. I sure as hell wouldn't bet against it. But this is the price some very brave individuals are willing to pay to attempt to change things they feel unjust.
Being tolerant will not change jack sh.it. Tolerating intolerance is simply asking for more intolerance. We may not have the balls to do what this woman did. But to compare people who challenge murderous intolerance with the mentality of a "slave master" is among the most disgusting things I've ever seen on these forums. Even asiafinest couldn't dream something that evil up. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| But to compare people who challenge murderous intolerance with the mentality of a "slave master" is among the most disgusting things I've ever seen on these forums. |
Well, what YaTa Boy actually wrote:
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It's not that far from the thinking of the slave masters who prevented slaves from being educated or earning any reward for their labor and then pointing at them and saying, "See, they're too lazy and stupid to be free."
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He didn't say that these artists were comparable to slave masters in every way. He said that their "thinking"(on this particular issue, I would assume) was "not that far" from that of slave masters. I don't think too many people reading this, besides you apparently, would think that he was saying that the artists were indistinguishable from slave masters in all respects. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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What he was trying to do was take his liberalism to a logical conclusion to be provocative. He made a comparison that was clear. Very clear. We are not politicians. No need to pretend that meanings are different than they are.
"Its not far from the thinking" is drawing a very, very clear (and short) line between humans who justified owning slaves and humans who provocatively oppose the killing of homosexuals for religious reasons.
To a lefty American, everything they dislike can be taken back to segregation or slavery. Just like lefty Europeans who find a nazi or hitler behind every corner when faced with individuals critical of islam. It is a lazy, lazy, lazy way to try and stop a discussion that one is intellectually unprepared to participate in.
The mentality of someone who wants the Iranian government to stop killing homosexuals has absolutely nothing in common with people who tried to justify the genetic inferiority of Africans for their own economic betterment. Done and done.
Do not defend such nonsense. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
It would seem that Ya-ta is indirectly making the argument that the speech of those that would goad muslim extremists should be treated the same way the speech of a person that yells fire in a movie theatre is treated. |
What if there is a fire? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| thepeel wrote: |
| I'm sure somebody will make one. It would be quite funny. Have them blow on the recitation. |
Close:
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(Netherlands) - The Dutch were debating the limits of freedom of expression last week after an artist who photographed Gay men wearing masks of the prophet Muhammad was forced into hiding and her work removed from a museum exhibit.
Speaking on the telephone from an unspecified location in the Netherlands last week, the artist, an Iranian exile who goes by the pseudonym of Sooreh Hera, said she had been threatened with �execution�. For her part, Hera, who fled Iran seven years ago, says she has �no regrets�, particularly when she thinks about the young men and women being hanged there for offending the country�s code of sexuality. �I do it for them,� she said, �for the boys and girls with no freedom in Iran.� |
http://gayrepublic.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2288&lead=1
Lots of people hiding in Holland. |
This will be the undoing of the civilizations. On the right, you have the extreme fundamentalist wanting Sharia law and on the other, you have the secularist/liberals who want the freedom of expression without any restrain from religious institutions.
It's an interesting paradox.
Will Europe bow to this up and coming threat or will Europe go to war against the middle East to spread the message of freedom of expression? |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| thepeel wrote: |
| thepeel wrote: |
| I'm sure somebody will make one. It would be quite funny. Have them blow on the recitation. |
Close:
| Quote: |
(Netherlands) - The Dutch were debating the limits of freedom of expression last week after an artist who photographed Gay men wearing masks of the prophet Muhammad was forced into hiding and her work removed from a museum exhibit.
Speaking on the telephone from an unspecified location in the Netherlands last week, the artist, an Iranian exile who goes by the pseudonym of Sooreh Hera, said she had been threatened with �execution�. For her part, Hera, who fled Iran seven years ago, says she has �no regrets�, particularly when she thinks about the young men and women being hanged there for offending the country�s code of sexuality. �I do it for them,� she said, �for the boys and girls with no freedom in Iran.� |
http://gayrepublic.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2288&lead=1
Lots of people hiding in Holland. |
This will be the undoing of the civilizations. On the right, you have the extreme fundamentalist wanting Sharia law and on the other, you have the secularist/liberals who want the freedom of expression without any restrain from religious institutions.
It's an interesting paradox.
Will Europe bow to this up and coming threat or will Europe go to war against the middle East to spread the message of freedom of expression? |
False choice. Try again. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
It would seem that Ya-ta is indirectly making the argument that the speech of those that would goad muslim extremists should be treated the same way the speech of a person that yells fire in a movie theatre is treated. |
What if there is a fire? |
It's okay. But in this analogy it would be more likely that the person yelling fire set the fire. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ Explain. |
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