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The 'war on terror' licenses a new stupidity in geopolitics
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Pluto

Joined: 19 Dec 2006

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject:

ontheway wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Mr. Paul does Al Qaeda seek the Caliphate?

Mr. Paul why have you voted against every government bill on alternative energy?

1. No. Only stupid and deluded people believe that AQ seeks the Caliphate.

Are you serious? And you think Ron Paul can win the Republican nomination with rhetoric like that?

Look, I like Ron Paul on most issues concerning taxing, spending and economic issues, but it ends there. This guilt stricken 'blame America first' nonsense belongs in the Liberal crowd. AQ does wish for more power, they wish to spread their influence. AQ is a group of religious statists hell bent on taking over what they feel is theirs. Which is is the whole of Arabia and Persia and beyond.

Yeah, AQ should be free to rape, kill, maim and enslave hundreds of millions of people. AQ should have the liberty to force their world view on those they conquer. -- Welcome to wacky world of Libertarian foreign policy folks; everything is America's fault and angry islamic terrorists should be free to kill and enslave, even Americans.

Jessie

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject:

Pluto wrote:

'Blame America first' nonesense??? All Bush and his administration do is provoke fear and uncertainty with the American people. Bush was never very convincing trying to sell the Iraq war, but the American people were so incredibly ignorant and misinformed, it made his agenda all the more easy to accomplish. The administration speaks about fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq, this is such bullsh*t! Al Qaeda was not in Iraq during the time leading up to the war. Only after America started the war and destabilized the region did Al Qaeda start flocking to Iraq. Currently, Al Qaeda only accounts for a very small percentage of the 'extremists' that the Western militaries are fighting against.

Evil can have many disguises. Angry, Islamic terrorists are not the only people we should fear. Laughing

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject:

Jessie wrote:

Pluto wrote:

What were those who form Al Qaeda in Iraq going to do if the US never took down Saddam? Just remain peaceful?

Mideast regimes and elites teach hate and incite violence as a tactic of war. That is why there is and was a "terror bubble" in the mideast.

Jessie

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:43 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What brought Al Qaeda into Iraq was the war. Once the country became destabilized, they began entering the country through its less than secure borders. What was their motive for entering the country? They came to fight the western militaries occupying Middle East soil.

The American military is primarily fighting against 'Muslim extremists', but like I said previously, only a small percentage of them are actually considered Al Qaeda. Instead of focusing on the war in Afghanistan, where the American military were actually fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Bush chose to invade Iraq with no reason or right. Now, Afghanistan is becoming the forgotten war, where the American people seem to ignore the fact that the Taliban regime is strongly making a comeback, primarily in Kandahar. Neither outcome looks positive for the States.

As another poster already stated, these problems all originate from Bush's choice to over-react after 9/11.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:57 am Post subject:

[quote="Jessie"][

Quote:

what were those people doing before? How did they get like that in the first place

Quote:

The American military is primarily fighting against 'Muslim extremists', but like I said previously, only a small percentage of them are actually considered Al Qaeda. Instead of focusing on the war in Afghanistan, where the American military were actually fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Bush chose to invade Iraq with no reason or right. Now, Afghanistan is becoming the forgotten war, where the American people seem to ignore the fact that the Taliban regime is strogly making a comeback, primarily in Kandahar. Neither outcome looks positive for the States.

The reason they become extremists is that mideast regimes and elites encourage them to do it.

Quote:

As another poster already stated, these problems all originate from Bush's choice to over-react after 9/11.

Letting things happen in the mideast the way they were is what led to 9-11.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:45 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Mr. Paul does Al Qaeda seek the Caliphate?

Mr. Paul why have you voted against every government bill on alternative energy?

Al Qaeda seeks the Caliphate, and Ron Paul seeks the Presidency. Neither one is ever going to happen, even though the Iraq war made both more likely. (If going from 0.0001% to 0.0002% probability can be considered "more likely".)

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What were those who form Al Qaeda in Iraq going to do if the US never took down Saddam? Just remain peaceful?

I'm gonna go out on a wild limb and speculate that they wouldn't be killing Americans if we hadn't, y'know, invaded and occupied their country.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What were those who form Al Qaeda in Iraq going to do if the US never took down Saddam? Just remain peaceful?

I'm gonna go out on a wild limb and speculate that they wouldn't be killing Americans if we hadn't, y'know, invaded and occupied their country.

That's helpful. Now can you explain why Al Qaeda in Iraq was blowing up other Iraqis in the market when no American was in sight?

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:26 am Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What were those who form Al Qaeda in Iraq going to do if the US never took down Saddam? Just remain peaceful?

I'm gonna go out on a wild limb and speculate that they wouldn't be killing Americans if we hadn't, y'know, invaded and occupied their country.

9-11 happened before the US invaded Iraq.

In fact during the 90's 70,000 trained in Jihad camps in Afghanistan

This was while the US was protecting MUSLIM kurds from Saddam , and MUSLIMS in Kosovo from Slobidan.

This is also while the US was trying to bring the Israel and Palestinian side together.

What was the problem then?

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

Al Qaeda use two 'Down's syndrome' women to blow up 73 people in Baghdad markets

l Qaeda use two 'Down's syndrome' women to blow up 73 people in Baghdad markets
Last updated at 16:02pm on 1st February 2008

s

Quote:

Two women who reportedly had Down's syndrome may have been unwilling suicide bombers in twin blasts that killed up to 73 people at pet markets in Baghdad today.

A female bomber killed 45 people at a packed pet market in Baghdad this, police said, in the deadliest attack in the Iraqi capital in six months.

A separate bombing shortly after killed 20 people and wounded scores at a bird market in southern Baghdad, police said. The death toll from the two bombings increased throughout the day to at least 73.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brigadier General Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers apparently had Down's syndrome and the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating the women may not have been willing attackers, according to his office.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=511678&in_page_id=1811

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:39 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

That's helpful. Now can you explain why Al Qaeda in Iraq was blowing up other Iraqis in the market when no American was in sight?

Yes. Because they see those Iraqis as infidels (if they're Shia) or jahili (if they're Sunni), and because they're trying to destabilize the American-supported government of Iraq.

Sayyid Qutb was the inspiration for bin Laden and those who follow him. Qutb pioneered the term jahili, meaning essentially "ersatz Moslems" who have forfeited their right to live by supporting illegitimate (i.e. not based on sharia law) governments. Without Qutb, you are correct to imply that it would be very rare for Sunnis to risk killing other Sunnis, because Islam has no hierarchical structure to "excommunicate" anyone.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:47 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

stillnotking wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What were those who form Al Qaeda in Iraq going to do if the US never took down Saddam? Just remain peaceful?

I'm gonna go out on a wild limb and speculate that they wouldn't be killing Americans if we hadn't, y'know, invaded and occupied their country.

9-11 happened before the US invaded Iraq.

The 9/11 hijackers were Wahhabist Saudis. Al Qaeda had no presence in Iraq at that time.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

In fact during the 90's 70,000 trained in Jihad camps in Afghanistan

Which is, again, not Iraq.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

This was while the US was protecting MUSLIM kurds from Saddam , and MUSLIMS in Kosovo from Slobidan.

This is also while the US was trying to bring the Israel and Palestinian side together.

Yes, you see, this is because bin Laden is (was?) a Qutbist and had no interest in the Kurds, and certainly none in "bring[ing] the Israel and Palestinian side[s] together".

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

What was the problem then?

The problem was that bin Laden was a murderous fanatic following an evil strain of Islamism called Qutbism, a strain that has been given a significant boost thanks to the US invasion of Iraq. Al Qaeda in Iraq did not exist prior to 2003.

We invaded Afghanistan to clean out a nest of virulent Islamists. By invading Iraq we have created a nest of virulent Islamists.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:48 am Post subject:

stillnotking wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Mr. Paul does Al Qaeda seek the Caliphate?

Mr. Paul why have you voted against every government bill on alternative energy?

but it is why Al Qaeda fights and they will keep attacking until they get the Caliphate or they are destroyed.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:58 am Post subject:

stillnotking If invading Afghanistan was enough then why is it that none of the 9-11 hijackers were from Afghanistan? The mideast the way it is needed to change because it was a threat to the US.People join Al Qaeda because mideast regimes teach hate and incite violence.The US needs to find a way to get them not to do that. Mideast regimes are police states and control everything that happens within their boarders. Most of the clerics are paid by the governments , mideast regimes have excellent security services they know what their elites do. Mideast regimes can get rid of Al Qaeda within their own nations if they are feel threatened enough So the US invaded Iraq to get military bases so it could threaten mideast regimes. Get mideast regimes to lop the heads kill Al Qaeda supporters.

stillnotking

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:23 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

The mideast the way it is needed to change because it was a threat to the US.People join Al Qaeda because mideast regimes teach hate and incite violence.The US needs to find a way to get them not to do that.

...

Mideast regimes can get rid of Al Qaeda within their own nations if they are feel threatened enough

Finally, something we agree on. The best way to curb Islamism, in the short term, absolutely is to pressure countries that harbor and tolerate Islamists. Afghanistan under the Taliban was an excellent case in point. When Bush went into Afghanistan, I was tremendously relieved that we finally had a President who "got it".

Then he went into Iraq. Absolutely no good purpose was served thereby, other than getting rid of a dictator who was no threat to anyone outside his borders -- certainly no threat to America.

Permanent bases? Do you really think the Iraqi government is going to allow us to have permanent bases? If they try, they won't last a week after we pull out most of our troops. Of course they probably won't last more than a month anyway.

Invading Iraq has lessened our ability to apply pressure to the governments who really do ignore or accommodate the Islamists in their midst. Mideast leaders aren't stupid, you know. They understand that the political and PR disaster that has been the Iraq war has made it a virtual certainty that the US will not be doing the same thing to any of them. They also realize that Iraq has exposed the abysmal ignorance of Americans in general, who eagerly supported the invasion just because Iraq happened to be in the Middle East and was, in Feith's revealing phrase, "low-hanging fruit".

If we needed another object lesson after Afghanistan -- and I very much doubt we did need one, given the sudden cooperativeness of countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and even Syria following that war -- we should have picked a valid target. Invading Iraq did nothing but boost the cause of Islamists worldwide and limit our ability to effectively fight them.

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