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The Decline and Fall of America (The Movie)
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caniff wrote:
Tiger Beer wrote:
To those who say it's a pro-Ron Paul one, his name isn't mentioned one time.


He's in near the end for a minute.

Ah, I watched nearly all of it, but then skimmed through the last 15 minutes or so, must have missed him entirely.
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blaseblasphemener



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillnotking wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
Clearly America has quickly evolved in a few short years since 9/11 into a burgeoning fascist state.


Oh yes. Clearly this is the case. Rolling Eyes

Anyone who can describe America as "fascist" with a straight face clearly is not familiar with actual fascism and clearly is not worth listening to.


Hate to break it to you champ, but:

A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority, rather than personal or individual freedoms.www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational_Resources/Curriculum/Witness_And_Legacy_-_Teacher_R/Glossary__Teacher_Resource_Boo/glossary__teacher_resource_boo.html

and

An ideology that combines dictatorial government, militarism, control of the personal freedom, extreme nationalism, and government control of business. ...www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/a/c/ach13/Asia/Glossary.htm
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arjuna



Joined: 31 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepeel wrote:
Also included are videos of David Koresh justifying shooting people.

Well, enough of this. Bill Maher finished downloading.


You consider yourself an intelligent human being?
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a video where Koresh (at 32min) justified shooting poeple and said "god would have to sort it out". Then, Real Time finished downloading.

Maybe there is some wider, peaceful, context in that I'm missing? I generally try not to support shooting people.
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stillnotking



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaseblasphemener wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
Clearly America has quickly evolved in a few short years since 9/11 into a burgeoning fascist state.


Oh yes. Clearly this is the case. Rolling Eyes

Anyone who can describe America as "fascist" with a straight face clearly is not familiar with actual fascism and clearly is not worth listening to.


Hate to break it to you champ, but:

A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority, rather than personal or individual freedoms.www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational_Resources/Curriculum/Witness_And_Legacy_-_Teacher_R/Glossary__Teacher_Resource_Boo/glossary__teacher_resource_boo.html

and

An ideology that combines dictatorial government, militarism, control of the personal freedom, extreme nationalism, and government control of business. ...www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/a/c/ach13/Asia/Glossary.htm


Yeah, those definitions look pretty fair, and unless the Bill of Rights was suspended while I wasn't looking, the US remains a liberal democracy.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For there to be an actual Fall, economically speaking, wouldn't the US's GDP (as measured by PPP values) have to actually go down?

I understand the usage of decline as a relative figure; should the US grow 2-3% every year while other countries grow 5-6% every year consistently, there could be said to have been a decline. But as far as a Fall is concerned, I just don't see it happening in the near future.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillnotking wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
Clearly America has quickly evolved in a few short years since 9/11 into a burgeoning fascist state.


Oh yes. Clearly this is the case. Rolling Eyes

Anyone who can describe America as "fascist" with a straight face clearly is not familiar with actual fascism and clearly is not worth listening to.


Hate to break it to you champ, but:

A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority, rather than personal or individual freedoms.www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational_Resources/Curriculum/Witness_And_Legacy_-_Teacher_R/Glossary__Teacher_Resource_Boo/glossary__teacher_resource_boo.html

and

An ideology that combines dictatorial government, militarism, control of the personal freedom, extreme nationalism, and government control of business. ...www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/a/c/ach13/Asia/Glossary.htm


Yeah, those definitions look pretty fair, and unless the Bill of Rights was suspended while I wasn't looking, the US remains a liberal democracy.



No it's not! My brother just recently "disappeared" and my father was beaten in the street the other day by a group of men in suits for mentioning that he believes that the US should rely less on private contractors in Iraq. We've been eating bread crumbs for the past few weeks, and I'm using rationed electricity to type this quick post on my computer. Are you even receiving my message? Hello?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Bush was moving in the direction of Fascism, but he turned around 5 years later and found out no one was following him. Just as big a problem for him, you can't be a dictator without an army and there is far too much evidence that the military is not happy with his leadership.

We are now in the midst of the process of choosing his successor and there is no sign of him moving to cancel the elections. Twice before in our history we have had presidential elections during major wars and neither Lincoln during the Civil War nor FDR during the Second World War cancelled elections. Bush would be very hard-pressed indeed to find an excuse to do what they did not.

As much as I dislike Bush, I don't believe he ever had pretensions to be a dictator.

I also don't believe the US is declining and falling. It's on the wrong road right now, as the overwhelming majority believes, and we as a people are working our way through the process of fixing it. Our system can't prevent mistakes, but it does have the institutions in place to correct mistakes. In my opinion, the alarmists should have more faith in the country.
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stillnotking



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djsmnc wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
Yeah, those definitions look pretty fair, and unless the Bill of Rights was suspended while I wasn't looking, the US remains a liberal democracy.



No it's not! My brother just recently "disappeared" and my father was beaten in the street the other day by a group of men in suits for mentioning that he believes that the US should rely less on private contractors in Iraq. We've been eating bread crumbs for the past few weeks, and I'm using rationed electricity to type this quick post on my computer. Are you even receiving my message? Hello?


Yep, and I just turned you over to the Department of Fatherland Security. The SS will be along any minute -- don't resist, it just gives them an excuse to kick your teeth in on the way to the concentration camp.

Anybody else want to speak up against our Glorious Leader? Huh? HUH?!? I didn't think so. Twisted Evil
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arjuna



Joined: 31 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to Create an Angry American

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ
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jkelly80



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillnotking wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
Clearly America has quickly evolved in a few short years since 9/11 into a burgeoning fascist state.


Oh yes. Clearly this is the case. Rolling Eyes

Anyone who can describe America as "fascist" with a straight face clearly is not familiar with actual fascism and clearly is not worth listening to.


Hate to break it to you champ, but:

A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority, rather than personal or individual freedoms.www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational_Resources/Curriculum/Witness_And_Legacy_-_Teacher_R/Glossary__Teacher_Resource_Boo/glossary__teacher_resource_boo.html

and

An ideology that combines dictatorial government, militarism, control of the personal freedom, extreme nationalism, and government control of business. ...www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/a/c/ach13/Asia/Glossary.htm


Yeah, those definitions look pretty fair, and unless the Bill of Rights was suspended while I wasn't looking, the US remains a liberal democracy.


The has certainly been a concerted effort to curtail the application of certain provisions contained in the Bill of Rights, especially under John Ashcroft but continuing with Alberto Gonzales. The US is far far away from the Third Reich but it Bush & co. have tried their hardest to impose a national security state in the name of fighting terrorism.
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of people talk about how America is bad. Yet, those people are all well-fed, not starving; they all have houses and cars and anyone could go to school and make something of their life.
I was thinking seriously about emigrating with my family to the US. The houses are really big. Cars are cheap, gasoline is cheap, well, cheaper than any other western country. It seems like a really easy place to live except for one nagging thing that puts the brakes on for me - it seems there are too many who have psychological problems (problems of the mind rather than of need) and they create a huge problem of crime. America has everything - everything needed for a good life for everyone. It could be a wonderful country. But, why the general violence?

These Tim McVeigh-like people are nuts to think that because their violence is rationalised they are morally immune. There was nothing wrong with the country that they hate so much.
I can't understand how people who have so much in their country that is good, hate it and so make it worse for everyone.
It's people like those who say, "We have too much tax, let's take arms against our fellow Americans" who cause the most damage. They are ridiculous.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheonmunka wrote:
A lot of people talk about how America is bad. Yet, those people are all well-fed, not starving; they all have houses and cars and anyone could go to school and make something of their life.
I was thinking seriously about emigrating with my family to the US. The houses are really big. Cars are cheap, gasoline is cheap, well, cheaper than any other western country. It seems like a really easy place to live except for one nagging thing that puts the brakes on for me - it seems there are too many who have psychological problems (problems of the mind rather than of need) and they create a huge problem of crime. America has everything - everything needed for a good life for everyone. It could be a wonderful country. But, why the general violence?

These Tim McVeigh-like people are nuts to think that because their violence is rationalised they are morally immune. There was nothing wrong with the country that they hate so much.
I can't understand how people who have so much in their country that is good, hate it and so make it worse for everyone.
It's people like those who say, "We have too much tax, let's take arms against our fellow Americans" who cause the most damage. They are ridiculous.


Yeah, I hate those fukkers too. Truth be told, though, it isn't as widespread as people make it out to be. Otherwise our life span would significantly drop.

The real issue is that a lot of people have too much time on their hands and too little education. Gangbangers, robbers, and rapists bug me the most. They live in a fantasy world in which crime will solve their problems and become materialistic and narcissistic to the point that they think murdering someone for a necklace or 50 dollars is justified.
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blaseblasphemener



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

America doesn't have affordable healthcare, nor affordable university, and jobs in the middle and southern states are not so easy to come by. everyone who wants to work needs to look to the coasts, where housing is much more expensive. The days of wine and roses in America seem to have passed. They may very well return, but it's not a great time to be in the middle class right now.
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