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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Khyber said:
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| i think the deal is that Americans CAN'T spend ANY money there but they can visit. |
We are legally proscribed from traveling to Cuba. People have been prosecuted for it. It is possible to go through third countries and not get your passport stamped. I haven't risked it.
If you get special permission to go (government officials, media, business delegations, researchers) you cannot spend U.S. dollars. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Considering that the U.S has bombed, invaded or held military actions in over 60 countries over the past century, I'm surprised they're allowed to go anywhere. Shall we start counting? |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Americans aren't allowed to spend money there or to go there.
Many Americans do go through a 3rd country, and Cuba puts a piece of paper in your passport and stamps it.. they do that specifically for Americans. Its really no problem whatsoever to visit Cuba. The Cuban people have no animosity whatsoever towards the American people.
But it is true though that the U.S. government can prosecute for visiting.. but I can't recall the law specifically.. perhaps you can go there.. but it is absolutely entirely illegal to spend any money there whatsoever. How they enforce it, its hard to know.
I've known Americans who have lived there, studied dance or Spanish there, and many other things.. however it would be a nightmare experience if you lost your passport for some reason.
Since we're on the topic of Cuba & Miami. Isn't it interesting that anyone of Cuban descent is given citizenship upon landing on American soil, whereas anyone of Haitian descent is turned away and sent back. Haiti's problems are significantly worse than Cuba on almost every level. |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, I really don't know how the spending of US dollars would be enforced. I spent plenty of them there. Much of this was on the sly though. Cigars from a guy whose brother worked in the factory in Santiago. A lobster dinner at the house of a local villager, etc.... At the resort they issued tourist dollars in exchange for US dollars but still took the US money at the desk in order to convert it. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
By the way, in the good old days of casinos, nightclubs and hotels, the majority of people lived in dreadful circumstances under the U.S. supported dictatorship of Batista. Then few poor people had education, illiteracy was high, as was poverty and horrible working conditions. That is why the revolution succeeded so easily. You may not like the current situation, I don't, few do, but the U.S., once again, planted the seeds. But Cuba today has a higher literacy rate than the U.S., and, according to a recent study, better health care delivery. |
You commie bastard! (joke)
Yeah, well it seems as though they've made somewhat of a trade down there in Cuba. In exchange for receiving health care and literacy, they've lost material goods, gained a worthless currency, and I doubt working conditions have improved that much. The sugar industry now is hurting really badly and unfortunately Cuba is STILL dependant on that crop. Castro this year has also cracked down more heavily than he has in a couple decades; the EU is up in arms with him. I believe they had some trade deal in the works but that was taken off the table when he put the smack down so to speak. So I wouldn't say he puts his countrymen as his #1 priority.
And better health care delivery? Well umm, do you mean more people receive health care? I wouldn't doubt that, but are they getting BETTER health care than your avg. american? I'm leaning towards no. Not because of lack of doctors (cuba supposedly has plenty of them) but simply due to lack of medical supplies. And sure, you could blame US trade sanctions, but we're not the only ones who make medical supplies (EU, Canada, etc).
On the other hand, I do think its really dumb for the US to continue trade and travel sanctions. Castro isn't going anywhere until he passes away peacefully. THe sanctions hurt his people, not him. Not as though cuba is any type of threat anyway.
And one last thing, i wouldn't say the USA planted the seeds; I'd say Spain wins the award for that one. We just kicked the spanairds off the land and took over the farming  . |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:04 am Post subject: |
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bucheon bum said:
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| You commie *beep*! (joke) |
Well, at least you didn't call me a Canadian commie *beep*- now thems fighting words!
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| And better health care delivery? Well umm, do you mean more people receive health care? |
Yeah, I mean delivery. As some of us have pointed out elsewhere, great health care is meaningless if you have no access to it.
Cuba is no paradise. The regime is repressive. But, for various reasons, people DO return to Cuban from Miami- which, by the way, has just been awarded the title of having the most poverty in the U.S..
And the U.S. did more than just take over the farming from the Spanish, they were behind the corrupt casinos, drugs, etc..
Here is a Wim Wenders photo of two boys playing baseball on a street in Havana. (If there is a star instead of a photo please let me know. I am not always so successful at this!)
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Amercians can't go to Cuba because the US government has been enaction the Helms-Burton law and other embargos on the Castro Regime...it would look bad for american citizens to go to Cube while their government prevents american businesses from doing business with Cuba.... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
And the U.S. did more than just take over the farming from the Spanish, they were behind the corrupt casinos, drugs, etc..
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I know, just going with the seeds analogy. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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desultude wrote:
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| And the U.S. did more than just take over the farming from the Spanish, they were behind the corrupt casinos, drugs, etc.. |
bucheon bum said:
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| I know, just going with the seeds analogy. |
So sorry, I missed the subtlety. Nice. |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Hotel Cheonan wrote: |
| I think we're missing the big point, why would Americans want to travel to Cuba? It's not like the days of old, casinos, fancy hotels, etc. The conditions in Cuba are akin to those in N. Korea-although not as bad. Then think to yourself, why are so many Cubans trying to leave? |
dude, that's not the big point at all. in fact, it's hardly a point at all. i mean, why would americans want to travel to antarctica? outside of hardcore penguin enthusiasts, i can't think of anyone else with a reason. i certainly have no desire to go there, but i would still be annoyed if my government, the land of the free, told me i wasn't allowed to travel there. the big point is that the u.s. government has no buisness telling me what countries i can and can't go to. life, liberty, and all that jazz... remember? |
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peemil
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Location: Koowoompa
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Americans. Read the small print in your passport. Makes for interesting reading. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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In that same article i was reading about the travel industry delegation, they seemed to be able to think of a few really good reasons to go to cuba
They said, in fact, that Cuba was becoming a desired travel destination for it's nature. Not everyone goes to another country to experience it's casinos hotels and gambling etc.... The travel del. specifically mentioned the beaches and the natural scenery.
It's not the rich aristocrats who'd go to cuba now that's true. But to say no one wants to go may be a bit of a projection |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Cuba was immensily popular for Europeans because of its prostitution. But apparently as of the last year or two, Castro has been making that a huge problem for foreigners who go there for that reason.
The other big reason people go there is because of Cuban culture - salsa, son, music, guitars, cigars, plus largely untouched by capitalism and some amazing colonial architecture. |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Americans can't travel to Cuba? |
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| Alias wrote: |
I guess with an election coming up next year Bush wants to solidify his support from the refugee community in Flordia. |
Refugees my ARSE!
Shoosh,
Ryst |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| peemil wrote: |
| Americans. Read the small print in your passport. Makes for interesting reading. |
Ok, so I flipped it out, and I just don't see what you're referring to.
But there has been a problem with our passports for some time....French! WTF?! I learned that this stinkin' language is on all (or most) Federal Papers.
If anything, it ought to be Korean, 'cause it's the best and most scientific!
Shoosh,
Ryst (Se habla Espanol) |
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