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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
| The only people that take seriously the crap spewed by the OBLs and Kim Jong Ils of the world are either idiots, or those with a vested political interest in appealing to idiots. |
This is why we conservatives will never trust liberals on national-security issues. Given North Korea's history and given bin Laden's, too, yes, I think we ought to take what they say about their worldviews and their intentions seriously. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| stillnotking wrote: |
| The only people that take seriously the crap spewed by the OBLs and Kim Jong Ils of the world are either idiots, or those with a vested political interest in appealing to idiots. |
This is why we conservatives will never trust liberals on national-security issues. Given North Korea's history and given bin Laden's, too, yes, I think we ought to take what they say about their worldviews and their intentions seriously. |
That's cool. I have more definite, empirical reasons for not trusting conservatives on national security, but whatever floats your boat, I guess. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Funny. Almost as if it does not phase you one way or the other. But at the end of the day, conservatives dominate the foreign-policy and national-security establishment and people who think like you, as long as you keep talking as you do, will never gain admission -- no matter who wins the White House in this or that election.
Listening to you and On the other hand, and others here, talk, one gets the distinct impression that the only enemies and threats you recognize lie within the American right and Tel Aviv. Everyone else you either hero-worship (Castro, Guevara, the North Vietnamese and the Vietcong, Allende, Chavez), fall all over yourselves to apologize for (Khrushchev, Hezbollah and its leadership, Ahmadinejad), or dismiss as hardly worth noticing (Khadaffi, Kim Jong Il, bin Laden).
You are simply not to be trusted. Not only would someone like bin Laden get a nuke into the United States under your watch; but you would probably help him infiltrate it and detonate it. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| You are simply not to be trusted. Not only would someone like bin Laden get a nuke into the United States under your watch; but you would probably help him infiltrate it and detonate it. |
This is a truly sick thing to say. I have nothing else to say to you, ever. Have a nice life. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| Today, we are correcting human history from here, in Timbuktu. We have fifty million Muslims in Europe. There are other signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe, without swords, without guns, without military conquests. The fifty million Muslims in Europe, will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades. Allah mobilizes the Muslim nation of Turkey.... |
And of course, North Korea claims that they're on the verge of blowing up the Capitol building in DC...
It's always a bit dicey to take the self-aggrandizing rhetoric of dictators at face value. Gadhaffi likely knows that seeming to confirm the paranoid fantasies of the anti-Islamic crowd will have a rallying effect on his intended audience.
SOME MUSLIM DUPE SOMEWHERE: "Ah, the Colonel in Libya says that we are on the verge of conquering the world, and the European newspapers say that that is true!!" |
That's a red herring and the latter is the favorite fallacy of the apologist. It's perfectly natural to introduce red herrings when something we accept uncritically is criticized - we all do it - but from the perspective of argument and logic it's improper and invalid. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
| This is a truly sick thing to say. |
You would not want to help him nuke the White House, Pentagon, or another bastion of imperialist aggression, huh? Sure.
It is also sick giving bin Laden and others a nice, easy pass for the hateful things they say because you do not think we should bother to pay any attention to them.
In any case, good riddance. As I said, above, we will pay no attention to you on foreign affairs and national security because of these dangerous, negligent positions of yours. And here I speak as a conservative to liberals.
What would it take to alarm me, by the way, Peel? Someone who shares these views taking power in the United States and/or Britain. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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He meant that the Soviet Union was the way of the future and the Americans and the other capitalists were obsolescent. The Soviets would eventually bury us as we became extinct.
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That's kind of my point. Khrushcev said that the USSR was the wave of the future, but we now know that that was just a lot of self-aggrandizing bluster on his part. I'm saying that the same is likely true of Boum�dienne's "revenge of the cradle" brag, which thepeel is promoting as a plausible scenario. Remember, Peel was not talking about terrorist actions(which I agree are serious problem), but demographic "invasion".
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Did he not bang his shoe on the table in the UN during the Congolese Crisis, too? That does not strike you as belligerent, On the other hand?
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Yeah, but so does Trudeau sticking out his middle finger to the protesters in Salmon Arms, and Jean Chretien knocking around a left-wing protester. Heck, there was actually talk about Chretien facing criminal charges for that one.
As you can see, that's way and hell beyond what Khruschev did at the UN. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Listening to you and On the other hand, and others here, talk, one gets the distinct impression that the only enemies and threats you recognize lie within the American right and Tel Aviv. |
No, I regard bin laden as a serious threat, at least to the safety and well-being of anyone who happens to be in the vicinity of one of his terrorist acts. And I favor whatever action is necessary to stop him. (What those actions might be is a topic for another debate). |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| You are simply not to be trusted. Not only would someone like bin Laden get a nuke into the United States under your watch; but you would probably help him infiltrate it and detonate it. |
This is a truly sick thing to say. I have nothing else to say to you, ever. Have a nice life. |
Take your ball and go home. |
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