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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| Afghanistan was just a stage show. There was no way to go into Iraq without at least appearing to be worried about where Al Qaeda were ACTUALLY based. Now its up to British, Dutch, Canadians and others to die for appearances sake. |
You mean Afghanistan was the only place Al Qaeda was?
You do know that exactly ZERO of the 9-11 hijackers were from Afghanistan. |
How many were from Iraq? |
The US never invaded Iraq to invade Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the middle east.
The reason for terror is that mideast regimes and elites incite violence and teach hate.
The way to stop terror is to effect a either a change in behavior by mideast regimes and elites or to change the strategic situation in the mideast. |
Now if only the current administration would be so honest. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| Afghanistan was just a stage show. There was no way to go into Iraq without at least appearing to be worried about where Al Qaeda were ACTUALLY based. Now its up to British, Dutch, Canadians and others to die for appearances sake. |
You mean Afghanistan was the only place Al Qaeda was?
You do know that exactly ZERO of the 9-11 hijackers were from Afghanistan. |
How many were from Iraq? |
The US never invaded Iraq to invade Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the middle east.
The reason for terror is that mideast regimes and elites incite violence and teach hate.
The way to stop terror is to effect a either a change in behavior by mideast regimes and elites or to change the strategic situation in the mideast. |
Now if only the current administration would be so honest. |
You are right but the reason the US administration was not honest was not so much to deceive the US public but rather to decieve the mideast .
If the US had shared its real reasons for invading Iraq it would have made it very difficult for mideast regimes to go after terror supporters in their own nations because any time they did so it would seem like they were giving in to the US. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| Afghanistan was just a stage show. There was no way to go into Iraq without at least appearing to be worried about where Al Qaeda were ACTUALLY based. Now its up to British, Dutch, Canadians and others to die for appearances sake. |
You mean Afghanistan was the only place Al Qaeda was?
You do know that exactly ZERO of the 9-11 hijackers were from Afghanistan. |
How many were from Iraq? |
The US never invaded Iraq to invade Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the middle east.
The reason for terror is that mideast regimes and elites incite violence and teach hate.
The way to stop terror is to effect a either a change in behavior by mideast regimes and elites or to change the strategic situation in the mideast. |
Now if only the current administration would be so honest. |
Can it be argued that in deceiving the Middle Eastern people, the American people also felt deceived. Anyway, wars are done in the name of the American people. Don't they deserve to know the truth. Anyway,
Cheney is saying that the war was justified in Iraq. Yes, but Cheney doesn't have to pay a trillion dollars for the war. Someone does have to pay for it. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I thik that is what has bothered me most about the war in Iraq.
If the Bush admin had just come out and say - "Listen, we need oil and strategic positioning to lead us into the next century - and Iraq is where it's at" I would have disagreed with them and debated them, but at least I would have trusted them (using that word as in I believe what they say). Now, I trust very little of what the American Gov says.
Also, the above poster brought up a good point. Is it not the American taxpayers that are paying for this war? Are not young Americans dying there?
Should not they at least have been told the truth? |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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What better way to teach the mideast regimes that violence and extremism will not be tolerated than by giving them a perfect environment to teach violence and extremism in.
Hey Mahhmoud! Do you see those dirty Americans? They invaded our country, killed an unknown number of civillians and unleashed terrible violence in our country. What should we do?
Go buy a Britney Spears cd and some blue jeans I think.
I'm not saying that extremism doesn't need to be confronted and eradicated. I'm merely questioning the imbecilic logic that decided invading Iraq was the way to go about it.
Joo. Put aside all of your political views and theories and answer me this. You are an average Iraqi, sunni or shiite. What would your response to the American invasion be? It's very interesting to discuss matter in cold politcal terms but that is NOT reality.
Did we create prison camps for anyone suspected of being a communist? Did we allow torture of prisoners who might have had a connection to communism?
Did we have the patriot act to help "defend us" against communism?
Communism was a far greater threat to our way of life than terrorism ever will be. The threat of a terrorist sneaking a dirty bomb into a port city vs a country with thousands of nuclear weapons aimed directly at our cities. Which would you have consider more dangerous?
The US advocated brinksmanship, spying, occasional military interventions (which at best had mixed results) economic and cultural tactics to bring down the evil empire armed with thousands of nuclear weapons. Dirty brown people with ak-47's and rpg's. They get invaded and squashed.
Now there are even more dirty brown people with ak-47's, rpg's and in the future possibly nuclear weapons. Who would have imagined?  |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
I thik that is what has bothered me most about the war in Iraq.
If the Bush admin had just come out and say - "Listen, we need oil and strategic positioning to lead us into the next century - and Iraq is where it's at" I would have disagreed with them and debated them, but at least I would have trusted them (using that word as in I believe what they say). Now, I trust very little of what the American Gov says.
Also, the above poster brought up a good point. Is it not the American taxpayers that are paying for this war? Are not young Americans dying there?
Should not they at least have been told the truth? |
The United States has a warship near Lebanon. If the US invaded Lebanon, that might be more understood than Iraq, though I would not call for it. The majority of the Lebanese support the moderate government. However, there would be serious risks to invading said country and could turn the people away. In Iraq, the American people were purposely misled. The government Iraq was not much of a threat to national security.
After all, there were planes all over and no-fly-zones. There was pressure to move the troops out of Saudi Arabia.
The American middle class must foot the 1 trillion dollar bill and it is their boys who end up dead and get asked for money if they get injured, because they couldn't complete their tour of duty, because they messed up by getting injured by the enemy. The government has acted as the enemy of many soldiers, the middle class. It is very unfortunate.
So many Americans have been harmed with the Iraq thing including former and current soldiers, the thousands who committed suicide, the 11,000 plus who were injured. And for what? Some hair-brained invasion that may be a success after 5-6 years and trillion dollars that was base don half-truths. It may be great for Iraq, but it has been too costly a war.
I think this is more of a win for Iraq, then America so far.
Sure, the Kurds and Shiites are very happy, but what did the tax payer and electorate get out of this? I am still wondering. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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="yawarakaijin"]
| Quote: |
| What better way to teach the mideast regimes that violence and extremism will not be tolerated than by giving them a perfect environment to teach violence and extremism in. |
what was it like before 9-11?
| Quote: |
Some 70,000 people received weapons training and religious instruction in al-Qaeda camps, German police say.
The claim came at the retrial of Mounir al-Motassadek, a Moroccan man accused of involvement in the 9/11 attacks, which were partly planned in Germany.
A German police officer told the court recruits at the camps were taught they had a duty to kill US citizens.
Mr Motassadek says he received training in Afghanistan and knew some of the 9/11 hijackers - but not of their plot.
Although initially convicted of involvement in the attacks, he is now facing a retrial.
The case against him collapsed last year when a judge ruled that US authorities' refusal to allow lawyers access to a key witness in their custody had prejudiced proceeding
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4146969.stm |
| Quote: |
I'm not saying that extremism doesn't need to be confronted and eradicated. I'm merely questioning the imbecilic logic that decided invading Iraq was the way to go about it.
Joo. Put aside all of your political views and theories and answer me this. You are an average Iraqi, sunni or shiite. What would your response to the American invasion be? It's very interesting to discuss matter in cold politcal terms but that is NOT reality. |
Kurds are very glad the US invaded. The two most respected Shia leaders support US troops in Iraq.
While the average Shia is not happy with the US they are glad the US took down Saddam.
Iraq demographics are like this
Shia 60%
Sunni 20%
Kurd 20%.
The vast majority of the insurgents were sunnis from the middle of Iraq .
| Quote: |
Did we create prison camps for anyone suspected of being a communist? Did we allow torture of prisoners who might have had a connection to communism?
Did we have the patriot act to help "defend us" against communism? |
No?
but the Soviet strategy was different. The US had other laws than the patriot act. IN WW II the US did declare German Americans who were working for Germany enemy combatants.
Even with the Patriot act the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world.
| Quote: |
| Communism was a far greater threat to our way of life than terrorism ever will be. The threat of a terrorist sneaking a dirty bomb into a port city vs a country with thousands of nuclear weapons aimed directly at our cities. Which would you have consider more dangerous? |
Al Qaeda put a bigger hit on the US than Russia ever did.
| Quote: |
The US advocated brinksmanship, spying, occasional military interventions (which at best had mixed results) economic and cultural tactics to bring down the evil empire armed with thousands of nuclear weapons. Dirty brown people with ak-47's and rpg's. They get invaded and squashed
Now there are even more dirty brown people with ak-47's, rpg's and in the future possibly nuclear weapons. Who would have imagined? :roll |
You miss the point with your sarcasm.
Mideast regimes stop encouraging terrorism and stop those who support it within their own nations if and when they decide to.
The main cause of terror is cause mideast regimes and elites encourage it. |
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