|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Funny how facts keep doing that. |
All he said was that Israel has benefited. That does not constitute evidence of Israeli involvement. Disconnect some of your dots. |
You'd better stop taking some of your microdots. Did you not see where I wrote "I am NOT saying there is [enough evidence] yet to blame Israel?"
You are not a mindreader. You don't know anything about me unless I tell you. Stop projecting your paranoid fantasies on me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Why ought anyone trust the reporting of afterdowningstreet.org ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| catman wrote: |
| Netanyahu just gave the conspiracy theorists more ammo. |
And they were so close to being won over into supporting Israel. What a loss! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
We were attacked because of the money and weapons we give Israel. Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, George Tenet, Elliott Abrams and other Jewish traitors to America are bankrupting us in Iraq and now they even want us to fight Iran for them after Israel's military couldn't stay in the ring for even five weeks with 3000 Lebanese part-time militiamen trained by Iran.
Al Qaeda and Israel are both partially responsible for the current epidemic of Americans losing their homes. And bin Laden and Netanyahu are both talking about how good it is that the Arab-Israeli conflict has spread to America.
F' Arab terrorists and F' Israel. |
What Al Qaeda fights for :
| Quote: |
al-Qa'ida (The Base)
Qaedat al-Jihad
Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places
World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
Islamic Salvation Foundation
Usama bin Laden Network
Al-Qa'ida is multi-national, with members from numerous countries and with a worldwide presence. Senior leaders in the organization are also senior leaders in other terrorist organizations, including those designated by the Department of State as foreign terrorist organizations, such as the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya and the Egyptian al-Jihad. Al-Qa'ida seeks a global radicalization of existing Islamic groups and the creation of radical Islamic groups where none exist.
Al-Qa'ida supports Muslim fighters in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and Kosovo. It also trains members of terrorist organizations from such diverse countries as the Philippines, Algeria, and Eritrea.
Al-Qa'ida's goal is to "unite all Muslims and to establish a government which follows the rule of the Caliphs." Bin Laden has stated that the only way to establish the Caliphate is by force. Al-Qa'ida's goal, therefore, is to overthrow nearly all Muslim governments, which are viewed as corrupt, to drive Western influence from those countries, and eventually to abolish state boundaries.
Description
Established by Usama Bin Ladin in the late 1980s to bring together Arabs who fought in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. Helped finance, recruit, transport, and train Sunni Islamic extremists for the Afghan resistance. Current goal is to establish a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world by working with allied Islamic extremist groups to overthrow regimes it deems Non-Islamic?and expelling Westerners and non-Muslims from Muslim countries particularly Saudi Arabia. Issued statement under banner of the World Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders?in February 1998, saying it was the duty of all Muslims to kill US citizens civilian or militaryand their allies everywhere. Merged with Egyptian Islamic Jihad (Al-Jihad) in June 2001. |
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm
| Quote: |
| CAIRO (AP) � Al-Qaeda's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq." |
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-07-27-zawahri-warning_x.htm |
Thank you for pointing out that Al-Qaeda was not concerned with Israel until 2006. RJ, Bin Laden was solely focused on getting the US out of Saudi Arabia and bringing down regimes closely tied to the US. He arguably succeeded with the first but has failed miserably with the 2nd. Partly because of that failure, Al-Qaeda decided to embrace the Palestinian movement to more easily recruit people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Why ought anyone trust the reporting of afterdowningstreet.org ? |
Why not? The sheer volume of evidence ought to tell you something, Joo. Is none of it credible? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quack Addict
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The war on terror is really a war on your (Americans) rights. Defense contractors are the real winners. We will be in a perpetual war forever. After 9/11 the government started stripping away every Americans privacy rights. Welcome to 1984 and big brother. A 90 year old grandma in Florida was placed on a government watch list because she attended a peace rally. (sorry don't have a link to the article).
Look at Korea. Every where i see CCTV. Could the Koreans follow you down the street. Of course.
If there is ever a 3rd world war...it will be between Isreal and the Arabs. Choose your side. Of course U.S, U.K, (ie: western countries) will be on the side of Israel while who will be on the side of the Arabs...maybe China and/or Russia and of course every muslim country. Scary thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Why ought anyone trust the reporting of afterdowningstreet.org ? |
Why not? The sheer volume of evidence ought to tell you something, Joo. Is none of it credible? |
what evidence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quack Addict wrote: |
The war on terror is really a war on your (Americans) rights. Defense contractors are the real winners. We will be in a perpetual war forever. After 9/11 the government started stripping away every Americans privacy rights. Welcome to 1984 and big brother. A 90 year old grandma in Florida was placed on a government watch list because she attended a peace rally. (sorry don't have a link to the article).
Look at Korea. Every where i see CCTV. Could the Koreans follow you down the street. Of course.
If there is ever a 3rd world war...it will be between Isreal and the Arabs. Choose your side. Of course U.S, U.K, (ie: western countries) will be on the side of Israel while who will be on the side of the Arabs...maybe China and/or Russia and of course every muslim country. Scary thought. |
Well the war can end when the Bathists the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists quit their war.
Forcing them to end their war is justice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Why ought anyone trust the reporting of afterdowningstreet.org ? |
Would you trust the NY Times?
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Why not? The sheer volume of evidence ought to tell you something, Joo. Is none of it credible? |
what evidence? |
This:
In a December 31, 2007, editorial, the New York Times faulted the current president and vice president of the United States for kidnapping innocent people, denying justice to prisoners, torturing, murdering, circumventing U.S. and international law, spying in violation of the Fourth Amendment, and basing their actions on "imperial fantasies."
Bush's and Cheney's crimes stand open on the table before us. Their lies about Iraqi ties to al Qaeda are on videotape and in writing, and they continue to make them to this day. Their claims about Iraqi weapons have been shown in every detail to have been, not mistakes, but lies. Their threats to and lies about Iran are on videotape. Bush being warned about Katrina and claiming he was not are on videotape. Bush lying about illegal spying and later confessing to it are on videotape. A federal court has ruled that spying to be a felony. The Supreme Court has ruled Bush and Cheney's system of detentions unconstitutional. Torture, openly advocated for by Bush and Cheney and their staffs, is documented by victims, witnesses, and public photographs. Torture was always illegal and has been repeatedly recriminalized under Bush and Cheney. Bush has reversed laws with signing statements. Those statements are posted on the White House website, and a GAO report found that with 30 percent of Bush's signing statements in which he announces his right to break laws, he has in fact proceeded to break those laws. For these and many other offenses, no investigation is needed because no better evidence is even conceivable. And rather than taking three months, the impeachment of Cheney or Bush could be completed in a day.
But the investigations that Congress has pursued at its glacial pace over the past 12 months, while thousands upon thousands died, have produced another impeachable offense, the refusal to comply with subpoenas. That is what President Richard Nixon did; and his refusal to comply with subpoenas constituted the offense cited in one of the three Articles of Impeachment approved by the House Judiciary Committee on July 27, 1974 as warranting "impeachment and trial, and removal from office."
Bush and Cheney are claiming executive privilege. Nixon also tried that one. It didn't work then; and it won't work now. Condoleezza Rice is claiming, with more frankness, that she's just not inclined to comply. Even Nancy Pelosi ought to understand by now that the removal of the threat of impeachment is what empowers the White House to ignore subpoenas, and that the threat of impeaching the White House for its stonewalling would break down the wall even before we reached impeachment.
And Bush and Cheney have gone further by announcing on July 19, 2007, that the Justice Department will not enforce any contempt of Congress proceedings. So, that alternative to impeachment would be out even if Pelosi were willing to allow a vote on it.
There are well-intentioned impeachment advocates who want to hold yet more hearings without the I word, with the idea that then the public will demand impeachment (as if the public hasn't already demanded impeachment).
These people are largely oblivious to the fact that the Congress has held dozens of hearings on impeachable offenses over the past 12 months. Holding more will do nothing but eat up the clock. Most of the ones they've already done didn't even make it onto C-Span. Most invited witnesses refused to show. Most subpoenaed witnesses refused to show. Most of the significant witnesses who have shown up have either refused to answer questions or have arrogantly asserted unconstitutional power knowing Congress would not do anything about it.
There is zero chance of new information making impeachment happen. That claim has been made over and over again as we've learned of war lies, spying, detentions, torture, murder, gang rape, political firings, signing statements, refusals to comply with subpoenas, destruction of tapes, commuting of sentences, etc.
The only thing likely to put hearings on TV or to compel witnesses to appear is to make the hearings impeachment hearings. I wish this were not the case, but it is. Congressman Jerrold Nadler held hearings on "The Constitution in Crisis" last summer. Did you know that?
My brothers and sisters, you can't crawl out from under a rock at this late date, go to one meeting, hear about good intentions to find a compromise and have confidence you're not being played. At least I wouldn't if I were you.
What will help make contempt or moderately interesting hearings happen will be unrelenting public pressure for impeachment.
Yes, we need good cops as well as bad cops in this effort. We have to talk with the committee members. But we don't have to believe every word they say or fail to do minimal research.
Contempt votes don't happen without Pelosi, and the Justice Department has already said it will not enforce anyway.
What can happen is impeachment, but the enemy is the clock. We don't have time to waste on the same things we've wasted the past few years on. I'm honestly sorry about that. It's not my fault.
If you want impeachment, insist on impeachment, and do it now.
Robert Wexler is pushing forward within the Judiciary Committee. Ask your representative to sign his letter to Conyers.
Dennis Kucinich introduced Bush Articles of Impeachment. Ask your representative to co-sponsor, and ask the media to wake up! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Why ought anyone trust the reporting of afterdowningstreet.org ? |
Would you trust the NY Times?
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Why not? The sheer volume of evidence ought to tell you something, Joo. Is none of it credible? |
what evidence? |
This:
In a December 31, 2007, editorial, the New York Times faulted the current president and vice president of the United States for kidnapping innocent people, denying justice to prisoners, torturing, murdering, circumventing U.S. and international law, spying in violation of the Fourth Amendment, and basing their actions on "imperial fantasies."
Bush's and Cheney's crimes stand open on the table before us. Their lies about Iraqi ties to al Qaeda are on videotape and in writing, and they continue to make them to this day. Their claims about Iraqi weapons have been shown in every detail to have been, not mistakes, but lies. Their threats to and lies about Iran are on videotape. Bush being warned about Katrina and claiming he was not are on videotape. Bush lying about illegal spying and later confessing to it are on videotape. A federal court has ruled that spying to be a felony. The Supreme Court has ruled Bush and Cheney's system of detentions unconstitutional. Torture, openly advocated for by Bush and Cheney and their staffs, is documented by victims, witnesses, and public photographs. Torture was always illegal and has been repeatedly recriminalized under Bush and Cheney. Bush has reversed laws with signing statements. Those statements are posted on the White House website, and a GAO report found that with 30 percent of Bush's signing statements in which he announces his right to break laws, he has in fact proceeded to break those laws. For these and many other offenses, no investigation is needed because no better evidence is even conceivable. And rather than taking three months, the impeachment of Cheney or Bush could be completed in a day.
But the investigations that Congress has pursued at its glacial pace over the past 12 months, while thousands upon thousands died, have produced another impeachable offense, the refusal to comply with subpoenas. That is what President Richard Nixon did; and his refusal to comply with subpoenas constituted the offense cited in one of the three Articles of Impeachment approved by the House Judiciary Committee on July 27, 1974 as warranting "impeachment and trial, and removal from office."
Bush and Cheney are claiming executive privilege. Nixon also tried that one. It didn't work then; and it won't work now. Condoleezza Rice is claiming, with more frankness, that she's just not inclined to comply. Even Nancy Pelosi ought to understand by now that the removal of the threat of impeachment is what empowers the White House to ignore subpoenas, and that the threat of impeaching the White House for its stonewalling would break down the wall even before we reached impeachment.
And Bush and Cheney have gone further by announcing on July 19, 2007, that the Justice Department will not enforce any contempt of Congress proceedings. So, that alternative to impeachment would be out even if Pelosi were willing to allow a vote on it.
There are well-intentioned impeachment advocates who want to hold yet more hearings without the I word, with the idea that then the public will demand impeachment (as if the public hasn't already demanded impeachment).
These people are largely oblivious to the fact that the Congress has held dozens of hearings on impeachable offenses over the past 12 months. Holding more will do nothing but eat up the clock. Most of the ones they've already done didn't even make it onto C-Span. Most invited witnesses refused to show. Most subpoenaed witnesses refused to show. Most of the significant witnesses who have shown up have either refused to answer questions or have arrogantly asserted unconstitutional power knowing Congress would not do anything about it.
There is zero chance of new information making impeachment happen. That claim has been made over and over again as we've learned of war lies, spying, detentions, torture, murder, gang rape, political firings, signing statements, refusals to comply with subpoenas, destruction of tapes, commuting of sentences, etc.
The only thing likely to put hearings on TV or to compel witnesses to appear is to make the hearings impeachment hearings. I wish this were not the case, but it is. Congressman Jerrold Nadler held hearings on "The Constitution in Crisis" last summer. Did you know that?
My brothers and sisters, you can't crawl out from under a rock at this late date, go to one meeting, hear about good intentions to find a compromise and have confidence you're not being played. At least I wouldn't if I were you.
What will help make contempt or moderately interesting hearings happen will be unrelenting public pressure for impeachment.
Yes, we need good cops as well as bad cops in this effort. We have to talk with the committee members. But we don't have to believe every word they say or fail to do minimal research.
Contempt votes don't happen without Pelosi, and the Justice Department has already said it will not enforce anyway.
What can happen is impeachment, but the enemy is the clock. We don't have time to waste on the same things we've wasted the past few years on. I'm honestly sorry about that. It's not my fault.
If you want impeachment, insist on impeachment, and do it now.
Robert Wexler is pushing forward within the Judiciary Committee. Ask your representative to sign his letter to Conyers.
Dennis Kucinich introduced Bush Articles of Impeachment. Ask your representative to co-sponsor, and ask the media to wake up! |
make the charge. I don't trust that site's reporting of what the NY Times says. If you have a NY Times article then show it.
At any rate.
the US doen't behave worse than other nations during war.
The US doesn't bahave worse in this war than it did during other wars.
The war on terror is justified.
Forcing Bathists , Khomeni followers , and Al Qaedists to quit their war is justice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
make the charge. I don't trust that site's reporting of what the NY Times says. If you have a NY Times article then show it.
At any rate.
the US doen't behave worse than other nations during war.
The US doesn't bahave worse in this war than it did during other wars.
The war on terror is justified.
Forcing Bathists , Khomeni followers , and Al Qaedists to quit their war is justice. |
Stop being a big baby. I gave you the source and the date. I gotta do everything for you? Look it up yourself. If it is not accurate, I'm sure you'll let me know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
make the charge. I don't trust that site's reporting of what the NY Times says. If you have a NY Times article then show it.
At any rate.
the US doen't behave worse than other nations during war.
The US doesn't bahave worse in this war than it did during other wars.
The war on terror is justified.
Forcing Bathists , Khomeni followers , and Al Qaedists to quit their war is justice. |
Stop being a big baby. I gave you the source and the date. I gotta do everything for you? Look it up yourself. If it is not accurate, I'm sure you'll let me know. |
No you gave me someone's interpretation of what
THEY read in the NY Times.
Anyway lets go through the charges.
Charge:
| Quote: |
| Their lies about Iraqi ties to al Qaeda are on videotape and in writing, and they continue to make them to this day. |
Saddam did support terror that is not lie.
Their claims about Iraqi weapons have been shown in every detail to have been, not mistakes, but lies.
How do they know they weren't mistakes?
Saddam did have a nuclear weapons program at the end of the 1980's .
He used chemical weapons against his own people.
There were lots of good reasons to belive that Saddam had such weapons more than that the record will show that Saddam had lots of items he was not supposed to have .
Saddam also intended to remarm.
| Quote: |
| Their threats to and lies about Iran are on videotape. |
What lies about Iran?
Iran has been out to get the US since Khomeni came to power. That is not a lie.
Iran threatens the US . That is not a lie. If the US threatens Iran then the US is just answering Iran.
| Quote: |
| Bush being warned about Katrina and claiming he was not are on videotape. |
I don't know about this.
Anyway show the tape.
| Quote: |
| Bush lying about illegal spying and later confessing to it are on videotape. |
What illegal spying? The US wire tape program was approved by congress.
So where is the proof?
Sorry all your source says is that they have it on tape and it was a lie and not a mistake.
You gotta do better than that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
