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We were clueless about insurgency says Wolfowitz
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mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:11 am Post subject:

agentX wrote:

The Fedayeen were Baathists and so were his son. They were the ones fighting the Americans before the true insurgency began after the Iraqi army was disbanded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedayeen_Saddam#Iraqi_insurgency

You only disprove your point. The disbanding of the Iraqi army (while stupid) did not kick off the insurgency. I doubt the Fedayeen would have joined a US-backed government like the regular army might have. The Fedayeen initiated the tactics during the invasion and continued. I doubt they are behind what is going on today. I think Bush has achieved his aim of making America safer from terrorism by turning Iraq into a game park for Arab males who need to bag a yank to prove their manhood. You don't have to try and sneak in the USA anymore. Just cross a few borders near home.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:

Quote:

I also remember a report about Evangelicals preparing to travel to the liberated country in order to proselytize to the heathen masses.

I think stuff like that has probably happened on some scale, but the only purpose it's ended up serving is as propaganda to sell the war effort in the Bible Belt back home. With indigenous Christians fleeing Iraq by the tens of thousands, I doubt that American missionaries are gonna have much success handing out bible comics.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject:

Adventurer wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Ha ha. The neo-cons are amusing. They're like a bunch of college freshman trying to rule the world in one of their bull sessions. So naive.

I don't accept what Wolfowitz has to say, because many experts warned that things could go very wrong in Iraq. I mean I am not an intelligence officer, and I warned people I knew that things could go majorly wrong, and one would have to plan for the possibility of a rebellion or whatever.

There were people out there who warned that things could go wrong, and the conservative thing to have done was to have an adequate military force. They allowed the collapse of the Soviet Union and the easy liberation of Kuwait to cloud their judgement. I am no expert, but what I predicted in Iraq did happen. They could have consulted with experts, military or non-military otherwise. They are guilty of incompetence.

I think comparing people occupying the most powerful positions in the world with college freshmen is a pretty strong indictment that they were incompetent.

Its really hard to come to any conclusion, unless you yourself were a college freshman. In which case I'd like to say that I meant no offense by comparing the neo-cons to you. I'm sure you'll be a lot more promising when you mature than they have been.

flip ant

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject:

flip ant wrote:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

You know, I just finished the first year of law school, and I feel great. But I feel fantastic now that some meaningless troll just called me out on how pathetic my acheivement is.

flip ant

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

You know, I just finished the first year of law school, and I feel great. But I feel fantastic now that some meaningless troll just called me out on how pathetic my acheivement is.

Who said anything about you? Are you in law school?

I would think someone in law school would be a little more articulate than to make sophomoric attacks comparing people you don't agree with to 18-year-olds. Of course, you've just finished the first year of law school. You're a big boy now! Rolling Eyes

Go get 'em! There are people out there to fleece!

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject:

flip ant wrote:

Kuros wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

You know, I just finished the first year of law school, and I feel great. But I feel fantastic now that some meaningless troll just called me out on how pathetic my acheivement is.

Go get 'em! There are people out there to fleece!

uh who are you? what have you contributed to this thread that would be deemed more than just "sophomoric"? Let's see, you used "fucked" as an adjective for no reason whatsoever, and then made rather lame sarcastic remarks. Impressive. Perhaps you should work on your own wit before criticizing others for not meeting your personal standards of articulation.

flip ant

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject:

bucheon bum wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Kuros wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

You know, I just finished the first year of law school, and I feel great. But I feel fantastic now that some meaningless troll just called me out on how pathetic my acheivement is.

Go get 'em! There are people out there to fleece!

Easy there, lawyer-lover. This thread was crap long before I ever got here. Hey, if "fucked" is allowed in the swear filter, what's the problem? You're not going legalistic on me, are you? And you're damned right I'll be sarcastic. When Kuros, who evidently thinks he's got a leg up on the rest of folks who don't fleece people for a living, starts being critical of anyone for anything, sarcasm is definitely in order.

Sorry, Kuros. I'm sure you're a stand-up guy.

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject:

flip ant wrote:

bucheon bum wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Kuros wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

You know, I just finished the first year of law school, and I feel great. But I feel fantastic now that some meaningless troll just called me out on how pathetic my acheivement is.

Go get 'em! There are people out there to fleece!

So are you going to tell us that you have a high opinion of the neo-cons? That they aren't worth chastising? That they weren't incredibly naive about invading Iraq? Who DOESN'T have a leg up on Wolfowitz, Feith, and company? I sure as hell do, as do most posters on this forum. Anyone who has read anything about the planning of the Iraq War knows what idiots they were.

flip ant

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject:

bucheon bum wrote:

flip ant wrote:

bucheon bum wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Kuros wrote:

flip ant wrote:

Or you could always be really fucking lame and go to law school.

You know, I just finished the first year of law school, and I feel great. But I feel fantastic now that some meaningless troll just called me out on how pathetic my acheivement is.

Go get 'em! There are people out there to fleece!

High opinion? Goodness no. You know that old saying about hindsight being 20/20, don't you? MOST people didn't know how to plan for this kind of thing when it was being planned (except for Adventurer, who keeps saying he said this and that but never offers up any evidence of it). That doesn't mean the "neo-cons" are off the hook, it just simply means few people were telling them this stuff when they were planning it. We can look back NOW and say they should have done it differently because we now know the outcome. It's like saying JFK was a moron for riding in an open car in Dallas. Had he not been shot that day, no one would have said a word.

And, no, I don't really like lawyers. I think they're all useless as professionals. I guess that's just my burden to bear. Wink

bucheon bum

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject:

Very good book. A history of events that people warned would be stupid BEFOREHAND. They include the American revolution and Vietnam War. If Ms. Tuchman were still alive, I'm sure she would include a chapter on the Iraq War. There were many people who warned the bush administration that such an invasion was a folly. General Shinseki was one. Even Colin Powell warned Bush (the infamous pottery barn reference). Were they listened to? No. So yes, 20/20 hindsight is lovely, but what makes the Iraq War so frustrating is that there were many people saying how dumb it was before it even occurred. No hindsight was needed.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:22 am Post subject:

What's with the attack on someone's chosen profession? It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:19 am Post subject:

flip ant wrote:

Sorry, Kuros. I'm sure you're a stand-up guy.

Oh, I see. I have been vocal on this forum about my current position in law school and have defended lawyers generally (I refuse to defend many particularly). I assumed that you knew I was in law school when you said that.

I'm sure you're a stand-up guy as well and admit that your response to my PM made more sense than my initial PM to you.

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