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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry SW, my remark wasnt aimed at you.
Some parents I'm sure send their kids to hagwon for fuzzy or selfish reasons but the majority seriously expect some educational benefit for the tuition they pay. Kids will be kids -- many actively avoid putting real effort into study & see English class as something to endure.
What I see too often is foreigners who take the lack of student motivation as a cue to be indifferent teachers, & even boast about doing zero prep & being 'babysitters.'
We owe it to the kids to try to interest them in learning English. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Point taken. I may not be the best person to be teaching kids. But I did always tried to do things that got the kids interested in English. I always prepared for classes and I always tried my best, even if the results weren't great.
It must be kick the waygook day or something. It seems everyone is telling me that I have to change my personality, if I want to teach in Korea.
Even my girlfriend. 
I'm not sure if I should be insulted by this or laugh.
"You have to be more activity person", wtf?
I don't know what people expect, not everyone can be Robin Williams.
If my best isn't good enough, then I guess it's time to move on.
Cheers |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| The evil penguin wrote: |
Being a korean with limited english would be very difficult if you were travelling through spain or italy..... |
Maybe, but it'd be a heckuva lot more difficult if they didn't speak any English at all. What, is your average Spaniard/Italian going to be more likely to speak Korean than broken English? |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Good point Corporal. English may not be widely spoken in many countries but a lot of people know at least a little English. It's interesting to see people from different countries using their limited English to communicate. They both realize it's the only way they can communicate. Sorta feel bad for Koreans or anyone when they cannot communicate much at all. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, I agree that most hagwans are a waste |
Currently Korea has pretty much lowest rating in Asia regarding English speaking ability, don't ask me for a quote but I remember reading that more than once. We have to remember two things, English is about as different from Korean as any two languages can get, making it incredibly hard for them to become fluent, and, the current Hagwon craze is only about 1o years old. My uni students didn't go to English Hagwons and their English is appalling. I think that when the Hagwon kids become adults we are going to see a huge increase in English ability and also a significant reduction in the "waeguks are weird" attitude. Even if it seems they are learning slowly in the Hagwon, they are getting a good grounding in the basics. Add that to the 5 years they get in middle and high-school, and the compulsory course that all freshmen must do and they've had a lot of exposure. Then add in one year abroad and they'll be away laughing. The problem with the middle and high-school English courses is that they are taught by Koreans who are often not great speakers themselves. I had a look at one of the textbooks they use once, it was clearly written by a Korean, and there were numerous mistakes and lots of awkward phrases and really misleading presentation. So the Hagwon is important because of the exposure to the native speaker. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Good post kiwiboy. Who knows what the scene will be like in 10 years or more? This country has been changing really fast in many ways during the past 10-15 years. All this hagwon mania has to help, doesn't it? Even in bad hogwans perhaps there is still some benefit for the students. Some bright kids learn despite less than ideal settings. It seems strange though that Korea, Japan, China and Taiwan presently all pretty much suck at English yet are the main places for EFL work. |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| I had a look at one of the textbooks they use once, it was clearly written by a Korean, and there were numerous mistakes and lots of awkward phrases and really misleading presentation. |
I agree with this. I sometimes help out the middle school kids with their homework and I often ask them why in some of the previous work that they have been given a correct answer when it is wrong. They show me their book and it is word for word bad grammar. Also, I'll change it and explain why but I'll get the same students book 2 weeks later and the middle school teacher has changed it again. The school teacher says I'm wrong. I know my knowledge of grammar rules is sketchy but I know how to talk my own language. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Yep, how hard would it be to use a text written by a native speaker. When I study Korean, I don't go out and find a book by a westerner do I? Don't answer, that's rhetorical. |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| just because wrote: |
| The school teacher says I'm wrong. I know my knowledge of grammar rules is sketchy but I know how to talk my own language. |
Obvisously all Westerners make mistakes. However, the Western way of learning seems to be less about memorization by rote and more about taking things apart and re-combining them to see what makes them tick. Thus many Western mistakes have a lot to do with either memory or trying to think of 3 things at once. That is why you may occasionally encounter the bright student who corrects your hasty mispelling on the blackboard (even though the reverse is going to be far more common).
On the other hand, on one or two occasions I have encountered some adult Koreans who react as if I'm the ignorant one for not understanding their broken, mispronounced Konglish. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Arthur Fonzerelli wrote: |
The craze will be to learn Chinese in a few years...China has become Korea's biggest trade partner, surpassing the US just recently...
English hagwons will be converting into Chinese language hogwons in a few years... Make your money fast and leave... |
Have you ever heard of the Edsell? |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:57 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking about how in a few years the new craze will be Chinese as well. there will always be a demand for English but as China becomes more and more an important trading partner you know the demand for Chinese will go up and up.
However....remember that there is a lot of supposed prestige attached to the English language in the Korean mind. There is little prestige attached to Chinese. Thats why English will be popular here in the long-term. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes, I agree that most hagwans are a waste |
Currently Korea has pretty much lowest rating in Asia regarding English speaking ability, don't ask me for a quote but I remember reading that more than once.
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I want a quote, because after being in a few other Asian countries I feel with the exception of Singapore, Korea is overall better than the rest for speaking abilitiy. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| You're not going to get a quote from me, but I've read it several times and even once there was a link about it on this board. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| When I was in Beijing a few months ago, I met very, very few people who could manage more than the basic "Herro." I'd believe that Korea is lagging behind JApan, but all of Asia- no way. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| just because wrote: |
| The school teacher says I'm wrong. I know my knowledge of grammar rules is sketchy but I know how to talk my own language. |
Obvisously all Westerners make mistakes. However, the Western way of learning seems to be less about memorization by rote and more about taking things apart and re-combining them to see what makes them tick. Thus many Western mistakes have a lot to do with either memory or trying to think of 3 things at once. That is why you may occasionally encounter the bright student who corrects your hasty mispelling on the blackboard (even though the reverse is going to be far more common).
On the other hand, on one or two occasions I have encountered some adult Koreans who react as if I'm the ignorant one for not understanding their broken, mispronounced Konglish. |
That's because a lot of Korean-English grammar books translate things directly from Korean. What they come up with is sort of a Konglish sentence, and when you try and correct it for them, they wrongly assume that you are changing the meaning.
It's amazing how many Koreans think that we know nothing about our own language.
By the way, how many of your students have asked you if you've seen the movie, "Roman Holiday" ? I had never heard of it before I came to Korea, and suddenly all of my students assume that I will have the entire script memorized. I realized why, today as I saw it in a bookstore in the learn English through movies section.
Why so many students have seen that one, but few have seen Casablanca, I'll never know.
Cheers |
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