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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
Funny is Koreans do hit and runs all the time...I haven't seen those incidents hit the news. Yet a soldier does it - you know when in Rome, do as the Romans and it makes international news.
Pretty pathetic standards huh? |
I agree Mr. Pink 100% ... it's such a pathetic double standard.
I had a fellow teacher tell me last year about this story of a Korean pulling a hit & run on a poor kid last year in broad daylight right in front of his playmates.
Cars just swerved around the kid sprawled & thrashing on the road bleeding profusely. My friend stopped in his taxi to help the poor little guy only to have the driver demand $$$ from him to take the little boy to the hospital.
How gullible & ignorant can some ppl be ???  |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
Funny is Koreans do hit and runs all the time...I haven't seen those incidents hit the news. Yet a soldier does it - you know when in Rome, do as the Romans and it makes international news.
Pretty pathetic standards huh? |
I agree Mr. Pink 100% ... it's such a pathetic double standard.
I had a fellow teacher tell me last year about this story of a Korean pulling a hit & run on a poor kid last year in broad daylight right in front of his playmates. |
I think there is a slight difference which makes it newsworthy. It's not necessarily that the media is shocked that an American did this, but rather they are interested in how the US government will handle it. (i.e.- will they turn the soldiers over to receive Korean justice as they should, or will they fly them back home to escape accountability?) These kinds of things have happened before, and the US doesn't have a good record in handling these types of things (not just in Korea, but all over the world), so of course the Korean media is going to keep an eye on how this is handled diplomatically.
I remember about 6 years ago, a Georgian diplomat in Washington killed a teenaged girl while driving drunk. During the investigation, the Georgian government tried to recall him back to Georgia, but eventually bowed to pressure and decided to keep him in the US until the invesitgation was complete. Of course, the media kept a close eye on that case, because it wasn't just a simple accident which happens every day. There was an interest in how it would be handled in a diplomatic sense, and that's what makes these events newsworthy. |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Don't diplomats have diplomatic immunity?
They can't be charged with crimes.
Are there exceptions?
Sorry, a little off topic. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| matko wrote: |
Don't diplomats have diplomatic immunity?
They can't be charged with crimes.
Are there exceptions?
Sorry, a little off topic. |
Diplomatic immunity is designed to prevent diplomats from being pestered with petty crimes or police harrassment. However, if there is loss of life or something serious like that, then the diplomat's government can be pressured into lifting that individual's immunity (but not necessarily).
In the case of the Georgian diplomat, the Georgian government was pressured into waiving the guy's immunity. He then pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 21-years in prison.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9710/08/diplomat.plea
However, the diplomat's government isn't required to lift immunity. In 1992, a US diplomat did the same thing in Moscow (killed a young girl driving drunk), but the US refused to lift his immunity and brought him back to the US the next day.[/url] |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Kalgukshi wrote: |
Butterfly wrote:
"I wish the idiot kid hadn't driven off though, then it likely wouldn't have even made the news."
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A member of the U.S. military in Korea is involved in a fatal motor vehicle accident resulting in the death of a Korean citizen, and you believe it would not be reported by the Korean media had he not left the scene?
This leads me to believe one of the following two statements:
1. You have not been in Korea long enough.
2. You have been in Korea too long.
I'll go with the latter. |
Why do people always have to be personal? WTF difference does it make how long I've been here?
I'll admit however that I was wrong about it being newsworthy only because of his absconding; wrong because..
As Mr. Clamence mentioned, the press are interested in this primarily as they are curious as to the reaction of anti-SOFA activists, as well as interested in how the US Military will deal with the serious misdemeanor of this young man, which resulted in the death of a young woman. Will they step in and ship the fellow back to America?
This is a kind of test case for the post Armoured car / teenage girls incident era. Thus it is of interest.
The US military, as we all know, have previous form, internationally*, for pulling their people out of facing the consequences of their misdemeanors overseas. It makes people angry, but chances are in this case they won't dare try here.
People here are curious as to how the US military will act and we hope, that he will face Korean and Korean only justice for his crime committed on Korean soil, probably he will, because people will be very angry if he doesn't.
Anyway, I notice it isn't in the news today.
Internationally*
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9803/14/italy.cable.car/ |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:18 pm Post subject: yes |
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| Not to sound insensitive, but Korean drivers get away with it because they are not caught. Sure, they'd get prosecuted, but it wouldn't hit the news, as it is a common thing. I think the US Gov't is going to use this as an opportunity to scapegoat someone for the deaths last year, and appease the Sk Gov't. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Here or on the International Job Forums
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:40 pm Post subject: Noticed |
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Butterfly wrote:
"Anyway, I notice it isn't in the news today."
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I noticed it was in the Korea Times on line edition when I got up this morning. Couldn't get into the Herald.
I also noticed it is in the JoongAng Daily today.
I would assume they are not alone. |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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People here are curious as to how the US military will act and we hope, that he will face Korean and Korean only justice for his crime committed on Korean soil, probably he will, because people will be very angry if he doesn't.
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You know that if he gets tried in a Korean court he is big big trouble. All the heat that has come over the last 2 years or so is going to come down on him. What he did was very idiotic and stupid but he will get something that maybe he shouldn't be given if it iwas a Korean driver standing there. maybe he will get what he deserves. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| J.B. Clamence wrote: |
Diplomatic immunity is designed to prevent diplomats from being pestered with petty crimes or police harrassment. However, if there is loss of life or something serious like that, then the diplomat's government can be pressured into lifting that individual's immunity (but not necessarily).
In the case of the Georgian diplomat, the Georgian government was pressured into waiving the guy's immunity. He then pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 21-years in prison.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9710/08/diplomat.plea
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A similar thing happened with a Russian diplomat in Ottawa a few years back. He drank something like 4 times the legal limit in vodka at an ice fishing party and on the way home ended up driving down a residential sidewalk and killing a woman who was out walking her dog. Diplomatic immunity was NOT waived and the guy high-tailed it to Moscow, but there he was put on trial for the crime and is now in jail. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
| Let's not create problems before the natives do. |
Exactly |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Bulsajo
I don't think diplomats can be, or at least not normally, charged and tried in the country they are working in. It is up the diplomats home country to charge and try diplomats who commit crimes. |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:55 am Post subject: |
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The case will go to a Korean court and the Korean media will see it as a dead story since it doesn't create a stir and shows that the SOFA agreement actually is a fair agreement.
It makes me feel even sadder for the families of the girls that were killed last year. They were abused by politics.
This new case is very sad and I am truly ashamed at the behaviour of the American man who fled the accident.
I think the US military needs to seriously consider ending all private vehicle driving priveleges for its personnel in Korea. It is not necessary and it starts to look at other issues such as; why do people have to live so far from the bases? what are the costs of paying for housing allowances in upscale areas that are not near bases? Is it necessary to have people living in remote affluent zones at 3 million won a month? How are we helping to generate income in the lower class areas near the bases? etc........... |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| ulsanchris wrote: |
| I don't think diplomats can be, or at least not normally, charged and tried in the country they are working in. It is up the diplomats home country to charge and try diplomats who commit crimes. |
It is up to their home country to do one of the following three:
1) waive their immunity, and thus force them to face prosecution in the host country. (as in the Georgian example)
2) recall the diplomat and prosecute them in their home country (Bulsajo's example)
3) recall them and not prosecute them
It's interesting that small little countries like Georgia usually have little choice but to concede and waive immunity, while more powerful ones like the U.S. and Russia don't really have to (and almost never do). |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:56 am Post subject: |
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YIKES. I saw "ANTIMIGUN" on that site posco linked, and it killed me! Of course the US soldiers have never actually helped Korea! Of course they are only trouble! Of course the death of those girls was murder for which all Americans, hell all foreigners, who all have AIDS of course, should be shot!
It's a sick country we are in.
Sorry, but that kind of thing really pisses me off. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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My Korean friends tell me that anyone who kills someone must go to jail, even if it is an accident. I actually met a guy who had just come out of jail because he'd killed a farmer who was driving his little tractor thingie on a narrow country road. The court found the farmer to be mainly at fault, but the guy I talked to had to spend one month in jail anyway.
Busan Boy:
It was nasty. The year started off with the Ohno incident at the Winter Olympics and that poisoned the atmosphere. There were boycotts of American-identified businesses like McDonald's and Nike. Then in June the girls got killed, just about the time the World Cup started. I don't remember anything happening until fall. Around the time of the trial, the demonstrations started, but they were small. It wasn't till the acquittal that the demonstrations really took off. That's when the notices went up in bar and restaurant windows: No Americans welcome. (But foreigners from everywhere were checked and some refused service no matter where they were from.) Adding to all of it, it was an election year and Roh said there wasn't anything wrong with anti-Americanism.
That's my memory of it anyway. |
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