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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Please note that I chose to eschew the need for superlatives. I can love my country without needing to see it as the best ever in every damn thing. I can love some things about my country while at the very same time hating other things about it. This is because I'm an adult, and one of the things adults can do is to believe two opposing ideas at the the same time without their head exploding. An adult can both love his country and wish it to be better, an adult can love his country and recognize that another country might have a better way of doing something.
As Shaw said, Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. I'll take Humanism over Patriotism any day.
Except, of course, when we're talking about bastards like Jesse Helms, about whom I choose to be irrational. Before he died, I hated him and everything he stood for, I hated him for not being a dead human. Since he died, I love him for possessing good enough taste to die, at last.
Yeah, that's right, I can recognize that any ideology must by definition be opposed by another ideology, I can even love that equation without having to love idealogues whose purpose is to squash me like a bug. I can love the struggle and loathe the opponent without my head exploding. Pretty cool, huh? Try it sometime, you might like it. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| sojourner1 wrote: |
What's right with America?
1. We ... |
It's a great list, sojourner, and I'd like to encourage everyone to read it one more time before we add a few more. Along with Pluto's points about American ingenuity, I'd like to add.
 Americans walked on the moon. Easy to forget at this late date what a grandiose idea that was at the time.
WW2 would have looked a lot different if we had maintained our isolationism. Myself, I don't think different would have been better, iin this case.
Europe after WW2 would look a lot different today if not for the Marshall Plan. We had self-interested reasons for what we did there, of course, but we could have chosen another route.
When scandals about torture or voter fraud or even a presidential bj occur, people generally get a chance to hear about it.
But I have some major problems with Beck's piece, as you might imagine. For one thing, he seems to think that feeling ashamed of one's country when torture is done in our name is a negative behavior, and I just think it's a human one, and a rational one.
I'll bet very few of us took the time to read the Inquirer piece he's linking to, but in it a Mr Chris Satullo points out the framers of the Constitution spoke of inaliernable rights which ALL men are endowed with. The right not to be tortured or imprisoned without trial or appeal would certainly seem to be one of them - again, the document says ALL men, not just American citizens or people who have not yet been labeled as combatants. ALL.
The other problem I have with Beck's piece is that he conveniently forgets that EVERY single one of the things he lists as being "right" with America are actually things the American right has opposed or been responsible for abbrogating at one time or another, and most of them in the present moment. (Okay, except for the part about charity - but maybe he didn't notice that a lot of things that charities do in America are, in other countries, services provided to taxpayers and paid for by taxpayers. But, shh, that's socialism and we don't like that.)
So, universities don't care about race or gender? Yet, who has been the opposition for every piece of social justice legislation about opening doors for women and inorities since the start fo the 20th century? Conservatives, of course.
Our world-class health system? Well, people die in America if they need an operation and they can't pay for it, and that's a simple fact. Was it the left that has opposed a national universal health care system? I think not, and in fact I think it was someone else. And spending more per person than other countries doesn't mean that every person is getting the care that they need. What good is having the very best medical facilities in the world if you can't afford to continue life by means of them?
Our education system really IS world-class - at the university level. But are our primary and secondary schools preparing the students for what they need once they get into them? Are they preparing the rest for what they'll need to know to live in a competitve global 21st century economy? But, half a century after Brown v the Board of Education, most parts of the country see more funding go to neighborhoods based on property values rather than the needs of the people ... and, once again, have conservatives championed any kinds of reform in this area? I think not. Rather they have been the obstacle.
And as Mr Beck says, I could go on ... on balance, there are more wonderful things about America than bad stuff. It's a good place, and I can understand why so many other countries emulate, even idealize the US.
Last edited by The Bobster on Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: ... |
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I've said this before.
Countries are a lot like families. Claiming your country is the best is really no different than claiming your family is the best. Nothing good comes of it, and it makes you look like a knob. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| What's right with America? John Stewart and the Daily Show. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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asylum seeker has a point, although I'd say Jon Stewart and the Daily Show are left and that Stephen Colbert is right and is a good example of what is right with the USA.  Our mass entertainment industry-- movies, TV and music--is world class. So are many of our writers. Since the 1920's our creative artists have been dominant in the world. |
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SirFink
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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*beep* yeah! And when the aliens invade the world? Who do you think is gonna be there to stop them? USA! USA! ...and Glenn Beck is a douche bag. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| I'd say Jon Stewart and the Daily Show are left and that Stephen Colbert is right and is a good example of what is right with the USA. Our mass entertainment industry-- movies, TV and music--is world class. So are many of our writers. Since the 1920's our creative artists have been dominant in the world. |
Wait, are you suggesting "the left" is what's right with America?   |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: |
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What's right about America?
Innocence, generosity, smiles, simple, -- a child
What's wrong about America?
-- they haven't grown up.
What's right about America is what is wrong about America. Meaning, a nation in any "enlightened" sense, is only as great as their populace is "aware" and enlightened. A nation in the final judgement, in the most serious measure, is only as great as how aware they , the citizens are. Higher level knowledge is a perceptiveness of life, the world.
America knows jackass as a nation. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/alisa_miller_shares_the_news_about_the_news.html
So I contend that Americans are victims of their own small and child like world.....nothing has changed since deTocqueville stated the same......
What's right about America -- certainly isn't CNN. LOL. The most ignorant news agency around. At least Fox makes no pretence of "caring" about the world out there.
DD
http://eflclassroom.ning.com |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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That drunken whino is still writing? Well, there's yer problem, rite there! He is so dumb he couldn't fill up a bathtub even if he dragged a bathtub to the beach. I guess his mishandled butt surgery or whatever hasn't stopped him from being the typical moron that he is.
The only reason why he's on CNN Headline News is so CNN can capture that bigot viewing block so desired by advertisers. He gets airplay because his views reflect the views of Amerikkkan bigots and homophobes which are a larger percentage of the public than Americans care to admit.
He's a lying, alcoholic, scumbag corporate *beep* whose only purpose on radio/tv is to rile up the masses to focus on anything but their immediate problems to keep his fascist master's pockets overflowing with the people's money. He's a (domestic) terrorist sympathizer and a Limbaugh-lite wannabee masquerading as a libertarian when he's anything but.
What's right about America? Well, Yosemite is still there. Yellowstone is still there. The wolves are back. The sky, despite the Bushtards' efforts, is still blue. The water, except in some parts, is still drinkable. birds are still in the sky. OK, so the people are still moronic racist assholes. But hey, there's more to a country that the mindset of the people inhabiting it. Look at it this way; at least we're not Sudan... at least, not yet. Bush will be gone soon, well we certainly hope so. Rumor has it that he has other plans...so stay tuned... |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Bush will be gone soon, well we certainly hope so. Rumor has it that he has other plans...so stay tuned... |
What? He's going back to college to get a degree? Majoring in International relations? He's going to take up an evening class in intermediate French? He's going to be sent in as Middle East Peace envoy and bum around the Middle East solving mysteries with his old buddy Tony Blair? He's gonna put down a payment for that hot-dog stand he's always wanted? He'll be used as a doorstop or a paperweight by Obama? |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
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| Bush will be gone soon, well we certainly hope so. Rumor has it that he has other plans...so stay tuned... |
What? He's going back to college to get a degree? Majoring in International relations? He's going to take up an evening class in intermediate French? He's going to be sent in as Middle East Peace envoy and bum around the Middle East solving mysteries with his old buddy Tony Blair? He's gonna put down a payment for that hot-dog stand he's always wanted? He'll be used as a doorstop or a paperweight by Obama? |
Rumors abound that he doesn't intend to leave office. But, we'll see one way or the other, come January 2009.
Now there is the possibility that the next administration could send Bush, along with his cronies, to the Hague to face war crimes tribunals.. So we'll see if he gets to finish that 'intermediate French' class you were talking about. |
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5600
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Location: At an undisclosed FEMA camp.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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What's right with Amercia?..
1. Guns galore
2. We gave the world the Ramones.
3. Colbert
4. We don't have to pick our own onions.
5. Pawn shops
6. Trailer parks
7. Nudie bars
8. Yankees
9. Philly cheese steaks
10. Ron Jeremy |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Home run derby at Yankee Stadium.
Watching that, (which a Canadian won, BTW  ), seeing the fans going crazy for Josh Hamilton, all I could think of was, only in America. Just the enthusiasm, the zest for life, and even if it's true that America is going up sh#t creek without a paddle, I'm sure they will find a way to dig themselves out. You just can't picture any other nation taking the torch that America carries. India? the have untouchable people for christ's sake. China? god help us all if they carry the weight of the world. Europe? Sure, but they don't have the gumption that America does. In the end, bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, two outs, Uncle Sam will hit one out of the park.
Baseball, one thing among many that is right about America. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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In the end, bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, two outs, Uncle Sam will hit one out of the park.
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Why not? It's happened before. The batter's name was Franklin D. Roosevelt. He played for the Washington Presidents back in the 30's. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
Home run derby at Yankee Stadium.
Watching that, (which a Canadian won, BTW ), seeing the fans going crazy for Josh Hamilton, all I could think of was, only in America. Just the enthusiasm, the zest for life, and even if it's true that America is going up sh#t creek without a paddle, I'm sure they will find a way to dig themselves out. You just can't picture any other nation taking the torch that America carries. India? the have untouchable people for christ's sake. China? god help us all if they carry the weight of the world. Europe? Sure, but they don't have the gumption that America does. In the end, bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, two outs, Uncle Sam will hit one out of the park.
Baseball, one thing among many that is right about America. |
....and the gushing. Let's not forget the gushing. |
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