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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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 Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Before, not now... |
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| Austin wrote: |
Please, by all means, continue to beat your head against "the wall"!
Austin |
Sounds to me like you have given up. No respect for self equals no respect from your colleagues or pupils.
Austin = washed up wannabe |
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Austin
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: In the kitchen
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:53 pm Post subject: Name calling... |
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Giving up? As I stated, I have no problem with your continuing to live as you see fit. It is not my place to tell you how to live. I was merely making a suggestion, as it seems like a few have been struggling to understand Korea.
Respect? Honor? What are they good for?
I love my students, and I bust my hump to give them my best every opportunity that I have. I do not do it for the extrinsic validation of honor or respect. I do it, because I love it (it is all intrinsic to me).
The passion for learning that I display to them is contagious, and it makes life good.
There is nothing "false" about it. Though they do "appreciate" me, I do not blindly demand it from them. I do not require for my ego to be stroked by my students. I would rather that they focus their energies on developing a genuine love for language, then be governed by falsehoods.
Austin |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Name calling... |
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| Austin wrote: |
| Respect? Honor? What are they good for? |
They are good for many things. If your students respect you then they will also learn better. Respect is earned, but it should also be demanded. I earn my respect by teaching the lesson and doing a damn good job of it. I demand respect by not bending my convictions to suit some higher up who doesn't care for quality.
| Austin wrote: |
| I do not do it for the extrinsic validation of honor or respect. I do it, because I love it (it is all intrinsic to me). |
That is good.
| Austin wrote: |
| The passion for learning that I display to them is contagious, and it makes life good. |
I fail to see how an egotistical, condescending person can encourage passion for anything.
| Austin wrote: |
| There is nothing "false" about it. Though they do "appreciate" me, I do not blindly demand it from them. I do not require for my ego to be stroked by my students. |
This is not about ego being stroked, though my impression of you is of someone who does need to be stroked. It's about doing a quality job and having high demands of your students and following through on them. Anything other than that and you are a dog and pony show. Giving good grades to students who do not deserve them just because your superior tells you to is weak. Get a spine.
| Austin wrote: |
| I would rather that they focus their energies on developing a genuine love for language, then be governed by falsehoods. |
Well it doesn't seem like they have much love for language if they go over your head asking for good grades.
So Austin are you the dog or the pony? |
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VincentVulgati
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Name calling... |
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| SuperHero wrote: |
| Well it doesn't seem like they have much love for language if they go over your head asking for good grades. |
All due respect Mr. Superhero, Sir., but it seems that by going over a teacher's head to get a higher grade what students care about is their marks. It does not speak to their love or dislike of language at all. Face it, students need high marks, and if they see a way to get them they will take it, whatever it is, whether they love languages or not.
I loved studying Greek, but my first year I had trouble with the grammar and could only eek out a B average. Would have loved to have a better mark and not drag down my GPA, but it wasn't for lack of trying; the class average was low as hell, and there was no curve. If I could have upped that grade by talking to the dean I would have. Marks are generally BS anyway -- so many N American Unis inflate their liberal arts students' marks that the whole system is retarded. The mark you get will not necessarily refect how much you know.
A question:
Are uni teachers being forced to give these students high marks or just being forced to scrape them by? . . .
VV |
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Austin
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: In the kitchen
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:57 pm Post subject: Failure... |
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Superhero,
Unfortunately, I think you are failing to follow my point.
I may come across as an egotistical and condescending person to you, but how could it be (you are supposed to be my equal)?
Believe it or not, but I have no control of your feelings of inferiority (that is happening within you). The message is the message, but your perspective has bent it for you.
You talk of respect, yet you say disparaging things toward me. What of your grand vision of respect to your colleagues...lol?
To the point:
Sorry, but learning has nothing to do with respect! It has to do with passion, function, desire, etc.
Grades serve only to divide, and I do not put any stock in that type of system. Students can evaluate themselves, as people can evaluate their own lives and decide what is and is not important for them! Moreover, I do not demand anything from my students. They need to create it within themselves. I merely give them a format and a platform to explore and use the language.
Deserve? That is a load of turds! My students do not need to be judged by others! Either no person deserves anything, or every person deserves everything. Basing education on a performance-based system may be cost effective, but it does not adequately address and assist the needs of the individual.
I do not know what you were writing about with your comment about people going over my head, as I do not give grades. As I stated before, I work in the public school system.
Enjoy your weekend.
Austin
BTW, I am whatever I need to be to reach my kids. You can label me as you wish. It is of little consequence to me. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
Ahhh, the last-year untouchables. It's the same at my uni. I have students who think that just because they are in their last year, they don't have to attend class, do assignments or show up for exams.
In such cases, when I tell them to enjoy their "F" and give my regards to the intersession teachers, the stunned looks, head scratching, downcast eyes, shuffling feet and lip pouts are priceless.
I fail students like that, regardless of what the head of the department or their advisor tells me. I've never had a problem with it. |
Last year untouchables? My 5 years of experience in Korea has shown that there are first, last and middle year untouchables. Also, maybe they don't give you a problem with giving the F's because they change them later? I mean, if you are told by the boss not to give an F, but you still do and there is no problem, I bet the grade is later changed. I worked at a college in Korea where we were free to give any grade we wanted. But, we had to fill out the grade report in pencil and give it to the sec. Well, the sec., who became a close friend, told me that his job was to change grades that were too low, that was why we had to do it in pencil.  |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| This is why I don't want to go to University in Korea. I heard this story a thousand times, and I just couldn't deal with the injustice. I'd walk out, so I avoid putting myself in that position in the first place. Until the Universities shape up, I'll never work for them. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Failure... |
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| Austin wrote: |
| You talk of respect, yet you say disparaging things toward me. What of your grand vision of respect to your colleagues...lol? |
You are not my colleague. When I meet someone for the first time I give them a standard slate of respect - basically I treat others how I want to be treated. My respect for that person goes up or down from that point on based on thier behavior. Over the years of reading this board I have come to realize that you are an egotistical, pompous, self-important fool who can not see what everyone else sees.
| Austin wrote: |
To the point:
Sorry, but learning has nothing to do with respect! It has to do with passion, function, desire, etc. |
that's right, but teaching has to do with respect in addition to those. Respect first then the rest follows. Have you ever had a great teacher that you did not respect? I think not.
| Austin wrote: |
| Grades serve only to divide, and I do not put any stock in that type of system. |
Then what sort of system do you follow? the most money gets the most respect or highest grade? I guess that's why you fit in so well with KOrean society.
| Austin wrote: |
| My students do not need to be judged by others! Either no person deserves anything, or every person deserves everything. Basing education on a performance-based system may be cost effective, but it does not adequately address and assist the needs of the individual. |
See above. re: system.
| Austin wrote: |
| I do not know what you were writing about with your comment about people going over my head, as I do not give grades. |
Obviously if you are not giving grades then you have no investment in this topic and your opinion is worth even less than it normally is. I'm curious how students in your class move up from grade to grade if there are no grades given? The student who puts in no effort, and can not even say hello in English advances at the same pace as the student who works really hard and improves their ability remarkably.
Assessment is required to determine if students have acquired what the program sets out to do. It also helps students to note their progress in acquisition of language.
Austin, stop being an obnoxious know-it-all in your posts. It is impossible for you to know everything. |
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