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coffeeNOW
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| coffeeNOW wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| coffeeNOW wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Excellent. I see several combinations of "the rest of the world" that could easily match and exceed the massive, superpower, muy poderoso, American power here.
Where are they?
Please do not tell me that they are going to sit back and let millions of African peoples and cultures suffer the consequences for this just to score and then smugly deliver antiAmerican propaganda points. Please do not tell me that they are that shallow.
What are their plans in Africa? |
Did you even read the original OP? Apparently not. Did you make any effort to find out what the UNPF actually is and how it works? Obviously the answer is no.
The United Nations Population Fund is a UN-funded body which focuses on reproductive health within poor and developing countries, among other things:
- Providing universal access to accurate information, a range of safe and affordable contraceptive methods, and sensitive counselling
- Ensuring that quality obstetric and antenatal care is available to all pregnant women
- Prevention and management of sexually transmitted infections, including HIV
Since 2002 the Bush administration has blocked US funding (despite it being approved by the US Congress) to the UNPF. The recent events go further, in that the US Agency for International Development is now enacting preventative measures to stop US-financed contraception from being provided to one of the largest clinics operating in poor African countries.
So to answer your question, the rest of the world is already shouldering all of this burden - the Bush administration has spent the last 6 years sitting on its arse doing nothing and has now become obstructionist on top of this.
You can find out more at the UNPF website http://www.unfpa.org
| Gopher wrote: |
| and what about African peoples and cultures, incidentally? How do they view this and what do they want, on a case-by-case basis? Does that matter to anyone here? -- |
You will also note from their website that the UNFPA "helps governments, at their request, to formulate policies and strategies to reduce poverty and support sustainable development". So your question could easily have been answered if you had bothered to find out what this body actually does and what the background to this issue is.
And you call me hysterical..... |
If "the rest of the world is shouldering all of this burden" then there would be no need for any US help. Problem solved. Case closed.
I think Bush has finally taken the rest of the world's advice and decided to stop intervening in other countires affairs. Thats what everyone wants right? They should be happy. |
If your administration doesn't want to do anything about the reproductive health of the world's poor and the prevention of HIV because they would rather foist their absurd evangelical viewpoint on the rest of the world, then by all means - don't do anything about it.
But when they actively try to obstruct others who are trying to do some good then perhaps you won't mind if we point out what a complete bunch of wankers you voted for (twice).
Fair enough? |
How exactly is this administration "actively obstructing others" from trying to do good? Is there a US naval blockade of European condom ships? Not sending aid is not obstructing others.
Why should this administration or any other be obligated to use American tax dollars to help any non Americans? |
Can you read? It appears not....
"The latest bout of reproductive-health madness came in the last couple of weeks when the U.S. Agency for International Development ordered six African countries to ensure that no U.S.-financed condoms, birth control pills, I.U.D.�s or other contraceptives are furnished to Marie Stopes International, a British-based aid group that operates clinics in poor countries. The Bush administration says it took this action because Marie Stopes International works with the U.N. Population Fund in China. President Bush has cut all financing for the population fund on the � false � basis that it supports China�s family-planning program."
| Beej wrote: |
| Why should this administration or any other be obligated to use American tax dollars to help any non Americans? |
According to Sarah Palin, America is "the greatest force for good in the world" - presumably you either disagree with her or, according to you, apparently you can do that without helping anyone but yourselves.... |
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coffeeNOW
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| saw6436 wrote: |
F**K Africa. All my life, all I've heard is "help Africa", "feed Africa", "poor Africa", "poor starving Africans", etc. I know I'm over generalizing but Africa is the black hole of aid. The longer aid keeps pouring in to Africa the longer they are going to need it. Its time to wean them off the tit and let them stand on their own two feet. Take responsibility for themselves.
Frankly I just about opposed to all forms of foreign aid. Disaster relief sure. But these long term, UN sponsored, inefficient, counter-productive programs. Cut them off.
If help must be given make it manpower and technical assistance. No more money. Throwing money at the problem hasn't helped in over 60+ years. What makes us think it will help in the future?
As to the OP. Condoms? Condoms? Condoms are cheap. STD education and family planning are the function of the home government. If the local govt can't/won't/isn't able to carry out this function. God help them because, frankly, its not my problem.
20 years ago I felt exactly the opposite. Sigh. |
Ah, that's a shame... So are you able to precisely identify the point during the past 20 years when you turned into a self-absorbed dickhead? |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| coffeeNOW wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| coffeeNOW wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| coffeeNOW wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Excellent. I see several combinations of "the rest of the world" that could easily match and exceed the massive, superpower, muy poderoso, American power here.
Where are they?
Please do not tell me that they are going to sit back and let millions of African peoples and cultures suffer the consequences for this just to score and then smugly deliver antiAmerican propaganda points. Please do not tell me that they are that shallow.
What are their plans in Africa? |
Did you even read the original OP? Apparently not. Did you make any effort to find out what the UNPF actually is and how it works? Obviously the answer is no.
The United Nations Population Fund is a UN-funded body which focuses on reproductive health within poor and developing countries, among other things:
- Providing universal access to accurate information, a range of safe and affordable contraceptive methods, and sensitive counselling
- Ensuring that quality obstetric and antenatal care is available to all pregnant women
- Prevention and management of sexually transmitted infections, including HIV
Since 2002 the Bush administration has blocked US funding (despite it being approved by the US Congress) to the UNPF. The recent events go further, in that the US Agency for International Development is now enacting preventative measures to stop US-financed contraception from being provided to one of the largest clinics operating in poor African countries.
So to answer your question, the rest of the world is already shouldering all of this burden - the Bush administration has spent the last 6 years sitting on its arse doing nothing and has now become obstructionist on top of this.
You can find out more at the UNPF website http://www.unfpa.org
| Gopher wrote: |
| and what about African peoples and cultures, incidentally? How do they view this and what do they want, on a case-by-case basis? Does that matter to anyone here? -- |
You will also note from their website that the UNFPA "helps governments, at their request, to formulate policies and strategies to reduce poverty and support sustainable development". So your question could easily have been answered if you had bothered to find out what this body actually does and what the background to this issue is.
And you call me hysterical..... |
If "the rest of the world is shouldering all of this burden" then there would be no need for any US help. Problem solved. Case closed.
I think Bush has finally taken the rest of the world's advice and decided to stop intervening in other countires affairs. Thats what everyone wants right? They should be happy. |
If your administration doesn't want to do anything about the reproductive health of the world's poor and the prevention of HIV because they would rather foist their absurd evangelical viewpoint on the rest of the world, then by all means - don't do anything about it.
But when they actively try to obstruct others who are trying to do some good then perhaps you won't mind if we point out what a complete bunch of wankers you voted for (twice).
Fair enough? |
How exactly is this administration "actively obstructing others" from trying to do good? Is there a US naval blockade of European condom ships? Not sending aid is not obstructing others.
Why should this administration or any other be obligated to use American tax dollars to help any non Americans? |
Can you read? It appears not....
"The latest bout of reproductive-health madness came in the last couple of weeks when the U.S. Agency for International Development ordered six African countries to ensure that no U.S.-financed condoms, birth control pills, I.U.D.�s or other contraceptives are furnished to Marie Stopes International, a British-based aid group that operates clinics in poor countries. The Bush administration says it took this action because Marie Stopes International works with the U.N. Population Fund in China. President Bush has cut all financing for the population fund on the � false � basis that it supports China�s family-planning program."
| Beej wrote: |
| Why should this administration or any other be obligated to use American tax dollars to help any non Americans? |
According to Sarah Palin, America is "the greatest force for good in the world" - presumably you either disagree with her or, according to you, apparently you can do that without helping anyone but yourselves.... |
You are the one with reading comprehension problems. Refusing to pay for something is not the same as obstructing someone from getting that something.
The force of good means different things to different people. Some people like abortion some dont. Thats not my argument.
The US government has no obligation to spend US tax dollars to benefit citizens of other nations. Most Americans would love to scale back the amount of foreign aid the US gives. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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CoffeeNOW: I read it far enough to see that the writer was attacking the W. Bush Administration for allegedly discriminating against poor black women (class, race, and gender!) and I stopped right there.
I have read more than enough of this nonsense in my life and I require no more, thank you very much.
I, for one, am all for calling in all debts and massively cutting back on American foreign aid programs across the board -- especially given "the rest of the world's" disdain for the United States. Let them finance and aid themselves. Let the beneficent and wise Europeans finance and aid them. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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From my admittedly limited vantage point and knowledge base, I do have some qualms about the neo-malthusian worldview. Just so you know where I'm sort of coming from on this.
Anyway, with that out of the way...
| Quote: |
The Bush administration says it took this action because Marie Stopes International works with the U.N. Population Fund in China. President Bush has cut all financing for the population fund on the � false � basis that it supports China�s family-planning program."
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A quick google search indicates that the UN Population Fund does in fact operate in China. So I'm kind of wondering here how possible it is to be involved in family-planning work in China(as the UN Fund is), without being involved in China's family-planning program. Is the Fund's work done entirely through private sector channels in China? |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
CoffeeNOW: I read it far enough to see that the writer was attacking the W. Bush Administration for allegedly discriminating against poor black women (class, race, and gender!) and I stopped right there.
I have read more than enough of this nonsense in my life and I require no more, thank you very much.
I, for one, am all for calling in all debts and massively cutting back on American foreign aid programs across the board -- especially given "the rest of the world's" disdain for the United States. Let them finance and aid themselves. Let the beneficent and wise Europeans finance and aid them. |
Take your toys out of the sandpit and don't play with anyone else anymore. That will teach them! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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No. You mischaracterize. Not the spirit of the thing at all.
First, why shower so much aid and effort over people who despise you and resent it?
Second, why especially do this when you could better spend those funds elsewhere, especially in your own and in your true allies' economies? |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
No. You mischaracterize. Not the spirit of the thing at all.
First, why shower so much aid and effort over people who despise you and resent it?
Second, why especially do this when you could better spend those funds elsewhere, especially in your own and in your true allies' economies? |
Bush trip to a bastion of support - Africa
His week-long visit will focus on humanitarian improvements.
When President Bush visits Liberia as part of a week-long trip to Africa, which was set to begin Friday, he just may hear a popular song whose refrain includes these words: "Thank God for George Bush!"
The Liberian ditty from 2003 reflects appreciation for US intervention in the country's political strife. But in a broader sense, it represents how much of sub-Saharan Africa stands out as a bastion of goodwill toward the United States � and Mr. Bush � at a time of high international opprobrium for the US.
The reason for the African difference is simple. Against all expectations for what a Texas governor who dismissed Africa's national-security importance would do as president, Bush has elevated Africa's ranking on the presidential priority list, taking two policy-redefining steps that are likely to carry over into the next US administration:
�Bush raised Africa's place on America's global map of national security by creating AFRICOM, the US Africa Command. It will oversee American military operations and relations on the continent and elevate Africa's role in the battle with international terrorism.
�Bush has made the continent the focus of the international application of his "compassionate conservatism" creed: Africa is the workshop for Bush's Millennium Challenge grants, which seek to redefine the way the US practices foreign assistance by rewarding good governance and democratic regimes. In addition, the continent receives the lion's share of Bush's substantial HIV/AIDS funding and his administration's efforts to eradicate malaria.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0215/p01s02-usfp.html
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bush raised Africa's place on America's global map of national security by creating AFRICOM, the US Africa Command. It will oversee American military operations and relations on the continent and elevate Africa's role in the battle with international terrorism. |
That is bloody great. Looks like the beginnings of the machinery for intervention in the Sudan. Creating an African Command is a terrible idea. Why can the limp-wristted, condescending Europeans deal with improving Africa's situation? Did they not prey upon and then colonize the continent and put it in its present situation in the first place?
They broke Africa; they should bear the responsibility of fixing it. |
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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Seriously let that cess pit of a continent sink. Can't help people that don't want to help them selves. I sure wouldn't loose any sleep if that whole continent was devoid of life over night from any reason. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Temporary wrote: |
| Seriously let that cess pit of a continent sink. Can't help people that don't want to help them selves. I sure wouldn't loose any sleep if that whole continent was devoid of life over night from any reason. |
Aye, a vicious cycle Africa it is. Most of it has always been broken. All signs point to human life in Africa doubling in the next 50 years, while wildlife species will severely diminish; not to mention eroded land and environment. We'll lose sleep then. Imagine an aids infested, starving, polluted, warmongering continent with few renewable resources. And the ones that do sruvive will scramble on banana boats and head west. But can the west handle them all?
Sounds kind of like downtown Toronto. |
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saw6436
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| ^^Thats why the West has Naval Forces and Coast Guards. Sink them. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Black Africans are culturally averse to the usage of condoms. A complete waste of money sending them there. |
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