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Must one be a right-wing religious loon to vote Republican?
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Americans: Which of the following do you primarily associate with Republican voters?
Barking-mad right-wing religious fundamentalists & zealots
34%
 34%  [ 8 ]
War-mongerers
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Neocons
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Those concerned with national security
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Paleocons
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Fiscal conservatives
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Social conservatives
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Libertairan Republicans
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Friends, family and neighbours
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Other
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 23

Author Message
Bigfeet



Joined: 29 May 2008
Location: Grrrrr.....

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are three legs to the Republican party: religious zealots, business, and the racist South. The problem the party has right now is that the groups are fighting each other.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been puzzled by this question for some time also.

I think ultimately the explanation is neurological. It may have something to do Piaget's cognitive development schema in which Basic Trust vs. Mistrust is one of the first stages an infant must navigate in constructing his relations with the world.

To grossly oversimplify, Republicans mistrust the world and so we must be constantly on guard against "the enemy," welfare cheats, etc., and believe that people must take responsibility for their behavior. Democrats trust all the poor, suffering people of both other nations and our own who may have just made a mistake and now only need the government's help to get their lives back on the right track.

I have known liberal mothers absolutely broken-hearted that their daughters turned out to be right-wing Republicans, and siblings with diametrically opposed views. Despite similar nurture, something in their natures us just different.
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not about Republican or Democrat. Its about Liberals v. Conservatives.

It just so happens that the ideals of the Democrat party coincide with Liberals, and the Republican with Conservatives.

Over the course of American History, Republican and Democrats have switched between Liberal and Conservative.

Americans in general, are ever so slightly right of center. Despite the gains by Democrats in Congress, and the results of this election, Americans are slightly right of Center. A perfect example is Senator Jim Webb from Virginia. He's a new breed of "Conservative Democrats".

The far left, like the followers of MoveOn.org or Cindy Sheehan, are NOT representative of your typical Democrat. Just like Christian Fundamentalists are not your typical Republicans.

That being said, I'm a Conservative, and I can't fathom why anyone would want to vote for a political party that is backed by Hollywood and groups like MoveOn.org.

John Doe Celebrity goes on TV and says "Vote for Obama". John Doe Celebrity never went to college and is out of touch with reality. Do you think John Doe Celebrity has ever sat around waiting for their tax refund check in the mail because they NEEDED it to provide for their family?


Only the ignorant believe politics is all about Republican and Democrats. Anyone who talks politics using the 2 parties doesn't know a damn thing about politics. Its not about Republicans and Democrats people. Its about Liberals and Conservatives. Just how liberal/Conservative are YOUR beliefs.

Someone who is a conservative when it comes to Social issues, maybe liberal when it comes to economic issues. And vice versa.

So, all you Europeans out there, get your facts straight.

AND

It doesn't matter who the President is. All Presidents, Conservative or Liberal, have always come near the CENTER while in office.

George W Bush is a good example. When he first came to office, he was very right wing Conservative. His 2nd term is completely different than his 1st term, and he's closer to the center.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Voting on social issues annoys the hell out of me. (Note: I consider some issues to be multifacted, such as health care)

When someone votes primarily on social issues (left, right, or center regardless), it tells me:

a) the person doesn't have the average intellect or the average discipline to engage the issues

b) the person is way too dependent upon the government for solutions to what should be personal issues


The abortion debate is tricky. Someone could argue that we have laws against murder, and they think that when an abortion occurs, a baby is killed. I can understand that thinking, but these folks don't support safe sex education and the like or more access to birth control, because they want a religious society imposed on the rest of the country. They are not simply against what they view as murder.

I would like the U.S. political system to change. I wish there was simply parties with more of a focus on economics. Suppose, you as a Republican, do not want to be connected with religious right, you should be able to have the wherewithal to have many seats in Congress for those who think like you. The same should apply to people who support Leftist views and oppose abortion. I don't think what's available is so democratic or healthy. There is too much bad with the good.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
Its not about Republican or Democrat. Its about Liberals v. Conservatives.

It just so happens that the ideals of the Democrat party coincide with Liberals, and the Republican with Conservatives.

Over the course of American History, Republican and Democrats have switched between Liberal and Conservative.

Americans in general, are ever so slightly right of center. Despite the gains by Democrats in Congress, and the results of this election, Americans are slightly right of Center. A perfect example is Senator Jim Webb from Virginia. He's a new breed of "Conservative Democrats".

The far left, like the followers of MoveOn.org or Cindy Sheehan, are NOT representative of your typical Democrat. Just like Christian Fundamentalists are not your typical Republicans.

That being said, I'm a Conservative, and I can't fathom why anyone would want to vote for a political party that is backed by Hollywood and groups like MoveOn.org.

John Doe Celebrity goes on TV and says "Vote for Obama". John Doe Celebrity never went to college and is out of touch with reality. Do you think John Doe Celebrity has ever sat around waiting for their tax refund check in the mail because they NEEDED it to provide for their family?


Only the ignorant believe politics is all about Republican and Democrats. Anyone who talks politics using the 2 parties doesn't know a damn thing about politics. Its not about Republicans and Democrats people. Its about Liberals and Conservatives. Just how liberal/Conservative are YOUR beliefs.

Someone who is a conservative when it comes to Social issues, maybe liberal when it comes to economic issues. And vice versa.

So, all you Europeans out there, get your facts straight.

AND

It doesn't matter who the President is. All Presidents, Conservative or Liberal, have always come near the CENTER while in office.

George W Bush is a good example. When he first came to office, he was very right wing Conservative. His 2nd term is completely different than his 1st term, and he's closer to the center.



You have a point, but many democrats, in the past, were to the left of centre or more left than they were say under Bill Clinton. I am wondering considering all the insanity we've seen from the private sector if there can be a shift to the Left. I, frankly, would welcome it. There needs to be more of a Keynsian shift, because when those who run the private sector are left to their devices, they become too predatory and financial privateers at the expense of the general public as we've seen time and time again. You would think people learned that back in 1929, but somehow the right wanted to have another go at going to something too close to what existed before the New Deal. It's a bad idea.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you do have to be a right wing loon in this political climate.

In the past, one aspect they attracted was ecomical or fiscal responsible citizens. That was a major drawing point for many, however the Economist and everyone else you can imagine has been heavily for Kerry and Obama the last two elections, and no big secret why. True fiscal conservatives jumped ship in 2003...although the general public not very economically knowledgeable or informed still linger onto thinking the Republicans might actually know what they are doing in that regard (in their uninformedness).

The 'they will increase your taxes' has been another big element of the Republican Party. But you can see with both Bush I, Bush II, and Reagan that our deficit balloons to indefinite highs as they spend significantly more without any kind of budget and no plan to pay for it whatsoever.

Evangelicals are another big part of the Republican Party...Pat Robertson, all of them have been big in it. They keep hijacking it more and more, and will continue to be a strong element of it.

Then there is the 'fear of liberals' fraction which is a significant other portion. They use to have legitimate fear as the loon side of the liberals is equally far out there. But as the country has shifted significantly to the right, the mainstream Democrats (Clinton, Obama) are far from left, and actually very much in the middle, making them more attractive to the multitudes in the middle who are a bit leary of either the far left or far right.

GUN NUTS are another element of the Republican Party...NRA, etc. Sarah Palin epitomizes the Republican Party as she is evangelical and a gun nutjob.

Oh yeah, I should mention the neocon side of the Republican Party....there are still that element that thinks we need to continue to seriously bankrupt ourselves as a nation at all costs to keep bombs flowing and being used abroad as much as possible.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
I can't fathom why anyone would want to vote for a political party that is backed by Hollywood and groups like MoveOn.org.


Republicans also believe that Hollywood is a main reason for people voting Democrat. It's a double-edged sword (thanks to attitudes such as this) and any benefits are negated by this backlash. If you think Hollywood is the main reason people are voting for Obama, you really should read the headlines more carefully.
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bangbayed



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
bangbayed wrote:

Reagan was America's Mao.


FYI

Quote:
Millions of people in China reportedly had their human rights annulled during the Cultural Revolution. Millions more were also forcibly displaced. During the Cultural Revolution, young people from the cities were forcibly moved to the countryside, where they were forced to abandon all forms of standard education in place of the propaganda teachings of the Communist Party of China.

Estimates of the death toll, civilians and Red Guards, from various Western and Eastern sources[5] are about 500,000 in the true years of chaos of 1966�1969. Some people were not able to stand the cruel tortures, they lost hope for the future, and simply committed suicide.

One recent scholarly account asserts that in rural China alone some 36 million people were persecuted, of whom between 750,000 and 1.5 million were killed, with roughly the same number permanently injured.[29] In Mao: The Unknown Story, Jung Chang and Jon Halliday claim that as many as 3 million people died in the violence of the Cultural Revolution


I'm sure you want to walk that comment back a bit.


I only made that comparison with regards to how Mao, like Reagan, was able to unify formerly disparate groups into a strong political base. Culture was also a tool that was used by both "revolutions". The method of implementation and outcomes were obviously very different, but the strategy was very similar.

So no, no walking back needed, thanks.

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heckuva lot easier...hehehe...just so long as I'm the dictator!"
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
Someone who is a conservative when it comes to Social issues, maybe liberal when it comes to economic issues. And vice versa.

That's a good point. I'm actually a VERY STRONG fiscal conservative and pretty much ambivalent about social issues - I really don't care whatsoever someone's sexual gender or if abortion if legal or illegal. Guns do make me a bit nervous however. However, I do recognize that you can't completely ignore the basic necessities in life like healthcare for working class people who aren't employed by the right company to be able to have access to some weirdass healthcare over-inflated money-making-middle-man INSURANCE system.

But generally, I can't stand your general government handouts or HUD (housing to low income earners - they turn areas into complete ghettos, etc.). However, I see those exist just as strongly under Republican administrations, and I detest even more the HEAVY govt handouts to whatever random contractor in Iraq takes from the U.S. government to deliever donuts directly from DC at completely fiscally irresponsible prices. Etc.! I would rather have a donut given to a down-on-his luck AMERICAN IN AMERICA costing taxpayer money of 30 cents than one shipped to Iraq costing $1000 in taxpayer money.

Actually every debacle done by Bush the last 8 years has been a pretty huge messup that should irritate ANYONE fiscally conservative to sickness levels.


Last edited by Tiger Beer on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jandar



Joined: 11 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking this is a cleverly masked abortion discussion:

There are loons that think all abortions should be illegal.

At the same time there are loons who believe that live birth abortions are ethical practice.

And others who believe infanticide is justified in cases of birth defects.

In the Bioethics community there are those that argue for euthanasia in cases that would never have been considered prior to RvW.

In the case of assisted suicide how far are we from encouraged suicide, these issues are being discussed today by bio-ethisists around the world.

I think Abortion is a dead issue politically too many more important bio-ethic issues will be the forefront in the near future.

http://www.bioethics.upenn.edu/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioethics

http://bioethics.od.nih.gov/

http://www.euthanasia.com/
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Jandar



Joined: 11 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking this is a serious discussion about voting motives in today's climate:

I think most people know what the issue is in this election and will be voting with their pocket books, as they always do.

I think you will find that even some of the fanatic religious folks will be voting for the Dems, on account of the pocket book being more important to them.

The hand writing is on the wall.

The Dems have a little over three weeks to really screw up something big.

Chances are they ain't gonna screw up this time.
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stacyrb



Joined: 10 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted Barking-mad right-wing religious fundamentalists & zealots.

Which is rather sad considering I've been a staunch republican for the 14 years I have been in the voting public.

But Palin's church and views on abortion make me ill and I worry that McCain won't live long enough to keep her out of the presidential seat.

Stacy.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangbayed wrote:
Kuros wrote:
bangbayed wrote:

Reagan was America's Mao.


FYI

Quote:
Millions of people in China reportedly had their human rights annulled during the Cultural Revolution. Millions more were also forcibly displaced. During the Cultural Revolution, young people from the cities were forcibly moved to the countryside, where they were forced to abandon all forms of standard education in place of the propaganda teachings of the Communist Party of China.

Estimates of the death toll, civilians and Red Guards, from various Western and Eastern sources[5] are about 500,000 in the true years of chaos of 1966�1969. Some people were not able to stand the cruel tortures, they lost hope for the future, and simply committed suicide.

One recent scholarly account asserts that in rural China alone some 36 million people were persecuted, of whom between 750,000 and 1.5 million were killed, with roughly the same number permanently injured.[29] In Mao: The Unknown Story, Jung Chang and Jon Halliday claim that as many as 3 million people died in the violence of the Cultural Revolution


I'm sure you want to walk that comment back a bit.


I only made that comparison with regards to how Mao, like Reagan, was able to unify formerly disparate groups into a strong political base. Culture was also a tool that was used by both "revolutions". The method of implementation and outcomes were obviously very different, but the strategy was very similar.

So no, no walking back needed, thanks.

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heckuva lot easier...hehehe...just so long as I'm the dictator!"


That's an incredibly messy comparison, even giving you the benefit of the most generous interpretation. Mao basically manufactured the cultural revolution from the top down to retain power. Reagan exploited cultural positions already existing among the populace to unite the current GOP coalition. Mao immediately spilled the blood of hundreds of thousands as a result. Reagan merely sowed the seeds for failed policy that took years to manifest.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own pet formulation is that George W. Bush is the Mao of Iraq. That may sound odd, but when you think about what Mao unleashed upon China with the Cultural Revolution, and what Bush has unleashed upon Iraq with the invasion, you might begin to see what I mean. In both instances, it amounts to officially-sanctioned chaos in the professed hope of creating a better society.
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangbayed wrote:
pkang0202 wrote:
I can't fathom why anyone would want to vote for a political party that is backed by Hollywood and groups like MoveOn.org.


Republicans also believe that Hollywood is a main reason for people voting Democrat. It's a double-edged sword (thanks to attitudes such as this) and any benefits are negated by this backlash. If you think Hollywood is the main reason people are voting for Obama, you really should read the headlines more carefully.


I bet you a LOT of women who watch Oprah are going to vote for Obama because Oprah said to.
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