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| Is this a good decision? |
| Yes |
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8% |
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| No |
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91% |
[ 21 ] |
| Other |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I dunno. I have a really overweight friend. She's always been huge and so are all of her family. She doesn't really eat so much. She never exercises, yes, but that can't account for her 250 plus pounds. She really has a problem. I don't think she should have to pay for two seats. She has a hard enough time as it is. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| I dunno. I have a really overweight friend. She's always been huge and so are all of her family. She doesn't really eat so much. She never exercises, yes, but that can't account for her 250 plus pounds. She really has a problem. I don't think she should have to pay for two seats. She has a hard enough time as it is. |
I'm sure she does have a hard time. I know, people treat overweight people horribly. And I am not saying she has to be thin. But are you sure about the eating? It could be her eating times and not so much what she eats. Or maybe she eats bad things, yet just a bit. Could be anything. The exercise thing is her fault though. In a way, I don't think she should have to pay for the seat. But, you have to think about the other hand. Why should you have to pay extra because of her? Or, even worse, why should you have a very, very uncomfortable 12 hour flight from Seoul, when you paid just as she did. I'm not uncaring, and I believe in supportive help (never insulting). But it's not MY fault, nor YOUR fault. It might be much harder for her than someone with good metabolism, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. |
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Bondrock
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Location: ^_^
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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love the food idiom at the end... cookie crumbles indeed...
i vote hamster wheel at the back of the plane!
i recently lost 40 pounds in 6 weeks. dieting does not work well for me. exercise does. And I fully agree that lack of knowledge is a huge, huge factor in this burgeoning issue. |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Why should you have to pay extra because of her? But it's not MY fault, nor YOUR fault. |
That's the beauty of Canada and the reason why it's one of the best places in the world - because of our caring policies found in our social safety net.
It's not our fault there are single mothers, orphans, old people who can't work, workers who get hurt, people who get sick. It's our decision as a people to think beyond ourselves and see that we must take care of all people - thin, fat, ugly, stupid, whatever - to create a great country.
I've heard people complain about the government spending money on people living abroad - people like us. They can't understand why the gov't would do such a thing. The example here is when there's a war and the gov't removes their nationals and bring them home safely. Their opinion is *beep* them if they want to live in dangerous places.
Are they right? I don't think so because we are Canadian citizens the same as everyone else. Therefore let's not be so hard hearted when it comes to fat people getting two seats. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Why should you have to pay extra because of her? But it's not MY fault, nor YOUR fault. |
That's the beauty of Canada and the reason why it's one of the best places in the world - because of our caring policies found in our social safety net.
It's not our fault there are single mothers, orphans, old people who can't work, workers who get hurt, people who get sick. It's our decision as a people to think beyond ourselves and see that we must take care of all people - thin, fat, ugly, stupid, whatever - to create a great country.
I've heard people complain about the government spending money on people living abroad - people like us. They can't understand why the gov't would do such a thing. The example here is when there's a war and the gov't removes their nationals and bring them home safely. Their opinion is *beep* them if they want to live in dangerous places.
Are they right? I don't think so because we are Canadian citizens the same as everyone else. Therefore let's not be so hard hearted when it comes to fat people getting two seats. |
Are you comparing your friend, who does no exercise to a single mother, orphan or someone who got hurt??? Why should I pay for someone who chose to stay big? You said yourself she does no exercise. I don't think we need to be mean and should be supportive, but let me put this bluntly. She needs to get off her fat ass and do something about it. (I would never put it that way to her, as it wouldn't help).
In Canada, we also allow teenage Sikhs to carry daggers in the classroom. There are limits, and Canada is passing them. Canada is a great nation, but it cannot allow everything.
Understand one thing. I think your opinion is dangerous, naive and incredibly selfish (though you probably think the opposite). What about the poor single mother who can't afford a plane ticket home to visit her dying mother because ticket prices just shot up? I will not take care of a fat person who will not even try to exercise herself. I will take care of a child whose parents abondened him/her or a senior who cannot work anymore. Did you just graduate from a arts degree recently? |
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prideofidaho
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Why should you have to pay extra because of her? But it's not MY fault, nor YOUR fault. |
That's the beauty of Canada and the reason why it's one of the best places in the world - because of our caring policies found in our social safety net. |
HA! Yes, let's all care abut one another and hold hands, and who cares about the irrationality of our actions as long as we all feel good. Makes perfect sense.
Come on, you can't possibly argue that this ruling is fair and represents what's good about a nation, when what's obviously happened is that some group of people with money have bullied the system into giving them a break. That's how the country really works...by bullying. |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
[quote="laogaiguk
Are you comparing your friend, who does no exercise to a single mother. |
They are the same things. People who should have made better decisions but for some reason can't or are unable to.
Did you just graduate from a arts degree recently?[/quote]
There's no reason to be rude here.
My point is if you do not think it's ok for obese people to be granted some rights, then other people should not be granted rights either.
And you did not address my point about the fact that many Canadians believe the gov't should not protect their citizens who live and travel abroad. Do you agree with that or not?
Actually forget it. If you can't have a decent conversation, stuff it. |
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crito03
Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Laziness wins again! |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| crito03 wrote: |
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| Obesity is not caused by any of these, and the sole cause for obesity is ignorance and laziness, neither of which should be encouraged |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome
Maybe you should educate yourself first before you make such sweeping medical generalizations.
Actually the irony is that it is your own laziness and ignorance that leads to your misinformed comments. |
Let's use your own source against you...
| From your own source wrote: |
Dietary therapy
Where PCOS is associated with overweight or obesity, successful weight loss is probably the most effective method of restoring normal ovulation/menstruation, but many women find it very difficult to achieve and sustain significant weight loss. Low-carbohydrate diets and sustained regular exercise may help. Some experts recommend a low Glycemic index diet in which a significant part of the total carbohydrates are obtained from fruit, vegetables and whole grain sources.[15] |
This clealy shows that successful weight loss (though exercise and diet) is effective for treating it. This means that they don't have to be obese. I am not saying that they have to be what society thinks of as "thin", which is also wrong. Obesity (and I will admit, there might be a few cases that it can't be helped, WHICH ARE EXCEPTIONs, and don't hurt my case in the least) is caused by overeating and laziness (not doing exercise).
Trying to make obesity normal is wrong. Trying to pretend that obese people are ok or healthy is wrong. Buying junk food and feeding people who can't even get out of bed is no better than being a drug pusher.
And most definitely (unless a doctor's note is shown), these people should be forced to pay for two seats.
On another note, tall people should be able to sue for two seats now and I can not see them not being able to win. Oh wait, being tall can't be helped, so that wouldn't count. Only things you can change but won't because you are a lazy ass get through the Canadian legal system. |
At no point did I say that obesity was normal or healthy. Nor did I say that I agreed with this movement towards labeling everything as a disability. What I commented on was your sweeping generalization. Something that you did not address.
Fact is fact obesity can be caused by certain medical conditions something you clearly denied when you said:
[quote="laogaiguk"][quote="crito03"]
| Quote: |
| Obesity is not caused by any of these, and the sole cause for obesity is ignorance and laziness, neither of which should be encouraged |
Furthermore you back tracked here again when Kyber mentioned thryoid problems as a cause of obesity. At no point until now have you said that there were exceptions. Reread your original post. You do not say that there are exceptions.
I am not trying to take away from the bigger problem. I am simply trying to show you that some of your assumptions are wrong. |
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Perceptioncheck
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Why should you have to pay extra because of her? But it's not MY fault, nor YOUR fault. |
That's the beauty of Canada and the reason why it's one of the best places in the world - because of our caring policies found in our social safety net.
It's not our fault there are single mothers, orphans, old people who can't work, workers who get hurt, people who get sick. It's our decision as a people to think beyond ourselves and see that we must take care of all people - thin, fat, ugly, stupid, whatever - to create a great country.
. |
I don't think making allowances for obese people is "taking care" of people. It's the opposite.
My father is obese and it is through sheer laziness and overeating. Disgusting? Yes. If my government started making allowances for him, it would remove some motivation for him to lose weight and I would be pissed off because he needs all the motivation he can get; I don't want to lose my father early to diabetes, heart disease or any one of a number of obesity-related diseases.
The Canadians courts actions are, in a way, legally and socially sanctioning being overweight which is unacceptable. Being overweight to that point is unacceptable. Not only does it cause major health problems on an individual level; on a national level, these obese people are sucking your country's health resources dry.
Of course, there are those who are obese due to genetic disorders but that is an entirely different kettle of fish. The majority of obese people are overweight because, as someone already stated, ignorance and laziness. I also think the culture of instant gratification is to blame, especially with regards to the massive levels of fast food consumption. |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| Quote: |
[quote="laogaiguk
Are you comparing your friend, who does no exercise to a single mother. |
They are the same things. People who should have made better decisions but for some reason can't or are unable to.
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There are a few problems with this comparison. The first is that the children of single mothers made no choice to be born into a household with one parent.
The second is that once the child is born, there aren't any choices left for the mother. Having safe sex isn't an option after the fact. Eating less and getting exercise is always an option.
The third is that there are many more circumstances that lead to being a single mother than there are for being obese. A father could have died, left the family, been incarcerated or raped the mother. There are some people who are obese as a result of a medical condition, but most are not. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Laziness wins again! |
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| crito03 wrote: |
At no point did I say that obesity was normal or healthy. Nor did I say that I agreed with this movement towards labeling everything as a disability. What I commented on was your sweeping generalization. Something that you did not address.
Fact is fact obesity can be caused by certain medical conditions something you clearly denied when you said:
| Quote: |
| Obesity is not caused by any of these, and the sole cause for obesity is ignorance and laziness, neither of which should be encouraged |
Furthermore you back tracked here again when Kyber mentioned thryoid problems as a cause of obesity. At no point until now have you said that there were exceptions. Reread your original post. You do not say that there are exceptions.
I am not trying to take away from the bigger problem. I am simply trying to show you that some of your assumptions are wrong. |
Oh give it up and grow up. I made one post, and then after other people posted, I changed my mind after realizing I made a mistake. There are a few exceptions, which I started saying in my SECOND AND EVERY OTHER POST, including my reply to you. It's not backtracking. I did address it in my reply to you and in Khyber's. I allowed for some exceptions in them. I love the bolded, as I started addressing it right from my second post. The original post is not meant to include exceptions, which there are for everything. No generalisation is without exceptions.
None of which make me wrong though. I am still quite correct about the problems I am talking about. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| Quote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
Are you comparing your friend, who does no exercise to a single mother. |
They are the same things. People who should have made better decisions but for some reason can't or are unable to.
Did you just graduate from a arts degree recently? |
There's no reason to be rude here.
My point is if you do not think it's ok for obese people to be granted some rights, then other people should not be granted rights either.
And you did not address my point about the fact that many Canadians believe the gov't should not protect their citizens who live and travel abroad. Do you agree with that or not?
Actually forget it. If you can't have a decent conversation, stuff it. |
I was not rude, but seriously asking if you just graduated from an arts degree recently? I would still like to know. And my opinion of your opinion is fact, not an insult. It is amazingly dangerous.
Yes, I didn't address the point. I spent too much time trying to talk about the other points, but I will now if you like. Again, your analogies are just wrong. The Canadian government will not help someone who got screwed by a hagwon, because it was their choice and they could have looked into it first and also, they have a choice to leave (like obese people could get information on how to be healthy and have a choice to lose the weight). People caught in a war on the other hand did nothing to cause it and are victims of a problem outside their control (the few obese people with medical conditions).
Think of it like this. Insurance will cover you if someone comes by and torches your house. But if you play with fire inside and torch your own house, you're screwed.
Your analogies are really quite bad.
Obese people (other than the few medical exceptions, in which they shouldn't be classified as obese, but disabled) should have NO rights beyond you or me. Again, a very tall person should get rights before them, as they have no control over their height, unlike most obese people.
Your friend is obese by choice (you said so yourself). I feel bad, I know how hard it is to lose weight. Tell her not to diet and just to change habits bit by bit. It really helps. Just take chips out of you diet (but eat anything else). Do that once ever week. Or just ask someone for help with an exercise regime. But she is obese of her own choosing, and no matter how much young, naive Canadians want to take responsibility away from the person an blame anything else, I won't let it happen as much as I can.
I know a person who can walk fine and looks healthy. But she has a handicapped sticker for her car. She is always getting rude stares. She has a nasty heart murmur and can not walk far, or could quite literally die. This is why you should never judge a person until you have all the information. But, in general, obese people are lazy and I will not pay for it. |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| [quote="laogaiguk"][I was not rude, but seriously asking if you just graduated from an arts degree recently? I would still like to know. |
No but I find as I get older the more compassionate I am becoming. I used to be quite mean actually but these days I am becoming quite motherly.
There are many good points by people about this topic. I wish I could express myself better about what I actually want to say.
Whatever the case, I'm still for over weight people getting a decent deal on tickets. |
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Zutronius
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Suncheon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| If they take up two seats then they should pay for two seats. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Faunaki"]
| Quote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| [I was not rude, but seriously asking if you just graduated from an arts degree recently? I would still like to know. |
No but I find as I get older the more compassionate I am becoming. I used to be quite mean actually but these days I am becoming quite motherly.
There are many good points by people about this topic. I wish I could express myself better about what I actually want to say.
Whatever the case, I'm still for over weight people getting a decent deal on tickets. |
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Now that is one of the good things about the West (and Canada).
But I would like to just say one more thing. I actually think you are the one being mean while I am being nice. In truth, when most people are being nice, they are actually being mean. Giving obese people extra rights for being obese is just like that episode of the Simpsons when Homer learns he can work from home by becoming fat. You are actually harming them by allowing their destructive behaviour by affording them extra rights. And to be honest, it's not fair and counter to everything a society based on equal rights strives to be. |
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