|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PeteJB
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Never been much of a risk taker. I'd put half into a beautiful savings account and keep the rest for living expenses. Same goes for any large amounts of money, really. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Darashii
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I invested in companies who routinely screw over their customers, ie. me.
Like Visa.  So even though I'm late with a payment or they raise my APR, when they make money off me, I get to make money too.
(Er...just gotta wait and see if I simply break even or make a profit on this hairbrained idea.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| buy property! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EzeWong
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thunndarr wrote: |
| EzeWong wrote: |
As much as I've begun to think you were a total tosser, your information is correct and agreeable.
|
Sorry, but people who defend child abusers (um, that's you) don't get the luxury of calling other people tossers.
And btw, "angel invester" is better known in the English speaking world as "venture capitalist." That'll be 50,000 won. |
God... Child abuse is total different from corporal punishment. Don't try to play some semantic word game with me, you'll end up embarassing yourself again. And ultimately, I'm saying she provoked the man into beating her. Not that she deserved the beating. But whatever, you can go back to living in your "tosser" world.
Wonderful, i can go back to fighting you again.
Angel investors are different from venture capatilists. Angel Investors are the types of small time startup investors that meet people in elevators in fancy hotels in New York that are pitched to by startups. Angel Investors use their own money to invest. Venture capatilists are big time money managers and firms that participate in IPO's. They also usually have strict requirements and won't just pick up any humbum that pitches an idea to them whereas an Angel investor might.
An Angel Investor is like the OP, if he actually has 90,000 USD to invest. He's not a venture capatilist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dude Ranch
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
GOLD
plain and simple
It is around $800/ounce now and will go up to $1500-$2000 next year I believe. It will continue to rise. Even at worst it will maintain its value, with very low chance of loss
Just wait for the US dollar to tank -- which it will sometime in 2009 or 2010 and the price of gold will sky rocket.
Search Peter schiff on youtube and learn more |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seosan08
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Funny, I get attacked when I mention gold. Mises and Assexpander aren't as smart as they think they are.
| Dude Ranch wrote: |
GOLD
plain and simple
It is around $800/ounce now and will go up to $1500-$2000 next year I believe. It will continue to rise. Even at worst it will maintain its value, with very low chance of loss
Just wait for the US dollar to tank -- which it will sometime in 2009 or 2010 and the price of gold will sky rocket.
Search Peter schiff on youtube and learn more |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dude Ranch wrote: |
GOLD
plain and simple
It is around $800/ounce now and will go up to $1500-$2000 next year I believe. It will continue to rise. Even at worst it will maintain its value, with very low chance of loss
Just wait for the US dollar to tank -- which it will sometime in 2009 or 2010 and the price of gold will sky rocket.
Search Peter schiff on youtube and learn more |
Agreed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoExplode
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Keep it in cash. At least for now, unless you really believe this is the bottom.
Companies that have cash will rule the world should this recession become a Depression (which a lot of smart people think very well may happen). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dude Ranch
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NoExplode wrote: |
Keep it in cash. At least for now, unless you really believe this is the bottom.
Companies that have cash will rule the world should this recession become a Depression (which a lot of smart people think very well may happen). |
yes, but the only TRUE currency is GOLD, the US dollar is just a piece of paper whose value just plumet like that (which it will very soon) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pooty
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Location: Ela stin agalia mou
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice. I'm also thinking about taking an investment course, because I still am confused about investing in the stock market. When to buy, when to sell...(buy low! Sell high!) Seems like you have to constantly be looking at the market and know all the ins and outs...etc.
Actually it's a bit more than 90k, but that's not important. As for real estate, my father has 11 homes that he rents out, and I know that real estate always eventually goes up. I'm NOT looking for quick returns on my money. This would be a long term (25 + years) investment for my wife when I'm dead. Dead and gone, dead and gone, left me here to sing this song, pretty little girl with the red dress on..
I have a very good job (for now) with a chabeol company. I have solid (10 years) of industry experience that I can use on my resume when I go back to the states.
Btw, when I tried to register on the vangaurd site - it wouldn't let me. I sent them an email and told them I was a U.S. citizen working in Korea and I got this:
| Quote: |
Dear Mr. pootytang:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
Vanguard's U.S. mutual funds are for sale only to residents of the U.S,
Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. We can only accept new
account requests that are listed with a U.S. address.
If you have additional questions, please contact us. |
So, I'm taking it that we have to be currently residing in the U.S. to register? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I had the same problem trying to open a trading account with my bank (Bank of America). I eventually just lied and told them I live in the US and I am unemployed. They opened the account. I think it is bs all the stuff we can't do because we don't reside in the US. I guess I could have found and offshore brokerage account but I wanted it simple and wanted to be able to access all of my accounts from one website. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nolegirl
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You probably worked many years for this 90K, correct? Is this money you can afford to lose? Is this retirement money? Do you have a 401K from the states or retirement in Korea if you are staying?
Although these people have *great* investment ideas and all I (if it were my money) I would take that money and put in a CD. I know Peninsula Bank does 8% on a CD which is huge. But there is no risk and good return even if at a lower intersest like 5%. If you really want to try the market just do 10-20K, not all of it unless your beyond loaded and this 90K is nothing and in that case, you have my number!! hehe 
If you really want to invest in the market go to a professional |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nolegirl wrote: |
If you really want to invest in the market go to a professional |
Yeh...because the "professionals" did so well in this downturn. Ask anyone back in the states who currently has a retirement fund that a "professional" is managing what they think about investment "professionals."
It is your money and your future. Anyone can learn the basics of investing by reading books and the information available on the Internet. If you don't educate yourself, you will succumb to the same fate as others throughout the world who have watched their retirement funds sink by 40-60% in the last year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Think about this article written in April, 2008 before the price of oil shot up to what... $150 per barrell plus? Look at the quote I highlighted. Why didn't gold then shoot up to $1,500 an ounce?
The truth is that gold is actually LESS than it was before they correctly forecasted the doom and gloom we hit a few months ago.
They "assured" us that gold would certainly skyrocket to $1,500 if oil prices went to $130 per barrell. We flew $20 over that this past summer. In the meantime, we also had the stock market crash.
Another fact: Gold prices are currently 3x higher than they were around 2003. There is most certainly a lot of room for someone to lose their ass in gold.
Here's the article. Pay attention to all of the hype which didn't happen, the predicted things which did happen, and the fact that gold actually lost a little value through all of it:
| Quote: |
By Michael Brush
April 02, 2008
Gold's much-heralded climb above $1,000 an ounce was pretty short-lived. Gold's long-term ascent won't be.
With gold now trading closer to $900, this is a great time to load up on more exposure to bullion, which is only taking a breather before heading to $1,500 an ounce and higher.
That's the view of two gold gurus who have been correctly calling bullish advances in the yellow metal for years, most recently predicting the move to $1,000 an ounce. That was in November, when it seemed like an audacious forecast.
With their forecast proved correct -- if briefly -- they're not backing off. "There is lot more upside for gold," says Thomas Winmill, who manages the Midas Fund (MIDSX), one of the top-performing precious metals funds, with a three-year average annual return of 41.6%. Winmill thinks gold could see $1,500 in 12 to 18 months.
Frank Holmes, who manages the second-best-performing gold fund this year, U.S. Global Investors Gold and Precious Metals Fund (USERX), sees bullion going to $1,500 to $2,000 an ounce in the next leg up. He's not offering a time frame for that target.
Like Winmill, Holmes is worth listening to because his precious metals fund is also consistently one of the top performers. His Gold and Precious Metals Fund is up 40.1% a year over the past three years. Their funds do 6 to 7 percentage points a year better than the average for their peers.
How gold goes 50% higher
If they are right about the move up to $1,500, that should drive some of their favourite gold and silver stocks significantly higher over the next year or two. Here's the short list: Goldcorp (G.TO), Kinross Gold (K.TO), Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold (FCX.N), Pan American Silver (PAAS.O) and Silver Wheaton (SLW.TO).
Another way to go, of course, is to simply buy shares of their funds.
Here's a look at why they think gold will see $1,500 within a year or so.
Reason No. 1: The US dollar's value is declining. "Gold is attractive as a safe haven when the (US) dollar is declining," says Holmes. But why will the greenback continue to weaken? Above all, the U.S. Federal Reserve has been slashing interest rates dramatically, and it may reduce them even more. This makes investors move money to other countries -- especially emerging-market economies that have higher interest rates and higher growth rates. As investors move away from U.S. assets, they sell the dollar and push it down. And they buy other currencies, pushing them up against the dollar.
Investors are also losing confidence in the U.S. economy and U.S.-based investments because of the growing federal deficit, the subprime mess and concerns about the Fed's new role in bailing out investment banks exposed to too much subprime debt.
Reason No. 2: More U.S. inflation on the way. To see where inflation is headed, just take a peek upstream in the production process, says Winmill. Prices on intermediate goods -- or stuff that is midway through production -- advanced 8.8% during the 12 months through the end of February. Prices on early-stage "crude" goods were up 24%, according to producer price index data released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). "I see those price increases coming into the economy," says Winmill. "That is inflation in the pipeline." Prices on finished goods gained 6.4% in the same time frame.
Consumers, of course, are already aware that prices for food and gasoline have gone up. But as inflation persists, they'll hit a pivotal point in their thinking, when they switch to expecting prices to continue climbing. "That will trigger a psychology of investing in gold as a place to hang on in an inflationary environment," believes Winmill.
Reason No. 3: Investors will seek greater safety. Inflation is already so high that investors are losing money in traditional "safe" investments like U.S. government bonds. Consumer prices are advancing by about 4% a year, according to the BLS, while two-year U.S. Treasury bonds are yielding around 1.6%. So investors who now buy two-year government bonds will be losing 2.4% of their money per year. If the Fed lowers rates even more and inflation advances, the negative returns on government bonds will only widen.
"Historically this has been very good for any kind of hard asset, and particularly gold," says Winmill. "In a negative interest rate environment you don't want to hold bonds because you lose purchasing power." Winmill sees plenty of room for a shift in the flow of investing dollars toward gold, because only a minuscule amount of money in managed accounts is dedicated to investments in commodities.
Meanwhile, people continue to lose lots of money on investments like real estate and debt instruments backed by subprime mortgages -- which will keep scaring them into buying perceived safe assets like gold. "There is massive deflation in real estate and financial assets, and gold has traditionally done well when there are concerns about deflation," says Holmes.
Reason No. 4: Oil is getting pricier. Holmes points out that that over the past five years, gold and oil prices have moved in sync 90% of the time. The reason: When oil-producing countries take in more money because oil prices go up, they diversify by investing in gold. Typically, this creates a 10-to-1 relationship between the price of an ounce of gold and a barrel of oil. Thus $1,000 gold makes sense when a barrel of oil is $100. But that ratio can jump to 15 to 1 when geopolitical turmoil drives other investors to the safety of gold, says Holmes.
He thinks oil could trade as high as $125-$130 a barrel this year because of a basic imbalance between demand from emerging economies and short supply due to a lull in exploration investments during the 1990s, when oil prices were much lower. "If oil were to run to $125 a barrel because of a geopolitical event, gold would easily go to $1,500 an ounce," says Holmes.
Reason No. 5: Gold should follow other commodities. Since so many other metals, including copper and oil, have smashed their inflation-adjusted price records, why shouldn't gold follow, asks Holmes. If it does break through its inflation-adjusted high, set in 1980, it would trade north of $2,000 an ounce.
Here's a closer look at the five precious metals plays that should benefit from a spike in the price of gold to $1,500 an ounce.
Goldcorp
Both Winmill and Holmes count the Vancouver, B.C.-based Goldcorp among their favourites. Winmill likes it because it is the fastest-growing low-cost producer among "senior" mining companies, or those that have producing mines.
The company expects 50% growth in gold production over next five years, driven by development of two promising Mexican projects called Pe�asquito and Los Filos, and expansion of its Red Lake mine in Ontario (180 kilometres north of Dryden). Factoring in proceeds from the sale of mining byproducts like zinc and copper, the company should produce gold at $250 an ounce for the next five years, says Winmill.
Goldcorp is relatively safe because its holdings are in politically stable North American countries. It also has no insurance in the form of advance sales of gold meant to protect against a price decline. That's good for investors if gold goes to $1,500 an ounce, because they will get the full benefit of the price increase.
Kinross Gold
Like Goldcorp, Kinross Gold is a low-cost producer about to see rapid growth, which is why it places high on Winmill's list of favourite gold stocks. New projects in Brazil, Russia and Washington state should help increase production by 60% in 2009, compared to last year. Gold production costs (factoring in proceeds from the sale of silver, considered a byproduct of gold mining) should fall to $335 an ounce or less. One risk: The Kinross project in Russia could face interference or even a takeover by the Russian government.
"The operations in Russia come on line in the second quarter, and that is usually when the Russians make their move," says Winmill.
Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold
The world's largest producer of molybdenum and one of the largest producers of copper, Freeport-McMoRan also has an estimated 41 million ounces in gold and 231 million ounces of silver reserves. That makes it one of the bigger players in the precious metals space.
Freeport's Grasberg mine in Indonesia has the largest single gold reserve in the world. Freeport-McMoRan's stock still looks cheap, despite healthy gains in the last year. It trades for about 7.1 times expected 2009 earnings, compared with 15.4 times 2009 earnings for other large companies that produce both copper and gold, according to Citigroup (C.N) analyst John Hill, who has a buy rating and a $125 price target on the stock.
Two silver plays
Because silver will move up in price for the same reasons that bullion does, our two gold gurus put two silver producers at the top of the list of their favourite precious metals plays.
Winmill likes Pan American Silver, which he says looks cheap considering that the company expects production to increase by 14% to 19.5 million ounces this year. Bear Stearns (BSC.N) analyst Michael Dudas thinks production could advance to 25 million ounces by 2009 -- one reason he has a $40 price target on the stock.
Holmes likes Silver Wheaton, which makes money by purchasing silver from miners in long-term contracts and then reselling it. The company has contracts to purchase silver for about $3.90 an ounce, according to Morningstar analyst Vahid Fathi. That looks pretty good given that a move in gold to $1,500 suggests silver would sell for $30 an ounce.
At the time of publication, Michael Brush did not own or control shares of companies mentioned in this column. |
I'm of the belief that gold will probably be a safe place to be in the next 5 to 10 years. I am also of the belief that once you buy it, you're going to need to leave it untouched for 5 to 10 years. Sell it before then, and you will probably lose more than if you had never bought it at all.
Jdog, not to pick on you, but you mentioned buying gold now to fund your air ticket next summer. That means you'd have to sell it by next summer. The thing is, when you buy and sell gold, there is a large difference between the purchase price and the price you can sell it at. How much?
Here's a good site for you to look at: http://www.koreagoldx.co.kr/
If you buy a 4돈 bar of gold now (as of my typing) it will cost you 638,000 won, excluding service fees. If you were to sell that same bar back, you'd only be getting 524,000 for it. that's over 100,000 won lost on that gold bar you purchased -- now imagine what would happen to your money if gold actually dropped?
I'm not saying gold is a bad investment if you're in it for the long term (I too expect the US debt issue to be a killer some day). If you're in for less than 5 years, realize you're buying at some of the highest gold rates in years.
Call me names and swear at me all you want, Seosan08. I'm just telling people that gold is NOT something you should be thinking about to make money off of. If you had bought it when it was cheap five years ago, you'd have tripled your money. Now, however, you would be buying near the high end. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
