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Why do a majority of Americans support Israel's policies?
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:01 am Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Why is America the only nation in the world in which a majority of the public tends to support Israel's foreign policy...? I really don't get what such a selfish nation could see in it for them.

Because, unlike you good, unselfish Canadians, we are bad, selfish people, Yu Bum Suk.

Tater

Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: Korea

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject:

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Why is America the only nation in the world in which a majority of the public tends to support Israel's foreign policy? Do they really care so much about the lives of 6 million Israelis even though they ignore hundreds of millions of others who could dearly use their support? Is there any sort of imagined economic benefit behind all the ideological babble? Is it because they're so flattered that, besides ex-poodle Blair, Israel is the only government that publically pretends to be America's friend?
I really don't get what such a selfish nation could see in it for them.

Wow, that is a lot of misinformation! I can't tell if you are ignorant or just intend to slander, or a mix of both. I'll go with uninformed ignorance with the the intent to slander.

Try Option Three.

The OP is a troll who dwells on the fact that he/she is not an American. he looks at us with the petty jealousy that one might expect a Canadian to have toward Americans.

He comes on Dave's to troll Americans into anger while he sits back and make petty comments not intended to further any discussion, but to simply insult Americans with baseless accusations and childish bitterness.

Why people continue to respond to him as if he is anything other than a typical troll is beyond me.

suki

Joined: 10 Oct 2008

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject:

They do? News to me. The problem is from all the politicians we are forced to choose from, they all unquestioningly support Israel. Like Obama. We had to vote for Obama because we liked his rhetoric and the alternative was so awful. So gays had to vote for him, even though his policies are anti-equal rights. And those of us who sympathize with the plight of the Palestinian people had to vote for him, even though he's clearly courting the old school Jewish voting block. A lot of younger Jewish people I know don't even support this blanket approval of Israel, but what can we do? So don't blame the American people - we're as frustrated with our political impotency as the rest of the world is.

Jeff's Cigarettes

Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject:

Good to see that Obama's support in behind Israel in this.

catman

Joined: 18 Jul 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Canada and Stephen Harper. That country felt so strong about it, that Canadian people stood up and voted in Stephen Harper to show their support for George Bush.

Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject:

ReeseDog wrote:

Leslie Cheswyck wrote:

Because a majority of Americans know who danced in the streets and who did not after 9/11.

Well put.

Let's not forget the famous five dancing Israelis who were arrested in New Jersey on 9/11.

Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject:

Tater wrote:

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Wow, that is a lot of misinformation! I can't tell if you are ignorant or just intend to slander, or a mix of both. I'll go with uninformed ignorance with the the intent to slander.

Thanks for proving my point that 'many' Americans simply look for excuses to dismiss their irrational collective behaviour instead of examining the true interests and motivation behind it.

Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

ReeseDog wrote:

Leslie Cheswyck wrote:

Because a majority of Americans know who danced in the streets and who did not after 9/11.

Well put.

Let's not forget the famous five dancing Israelis who were arrested in New Jersey on 9/11.

Yawn, another 'truther' are you?
http://www.911myths.com/html/dancing_israelis.html

Anyway, I was talking about this.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Tater wrote:

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Wow, that is a lot of misinformation! I can't tell if you are ignorant or just intend to slander, or a mix of both. I'll go with uninformed ignorance with the the intent to slander.

Thanks for proving my point that 'many' Americans simply look for excuses to dismiss their irrational collective behaviour instead of examining the true interests and motivation behind it.

Tater has proven nothing about the American people collectively.

On the other hand, the entire premise of your post has been destroyed by bangbayed:

bangbayed wrote:

Actually, the majority of Americans, it seems do not take EITHER side.

Quote:
A new WorldPublicOpinion.org poll of 18 countries finds that in 14 of them people mostly say their government should not take sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Just three countries favor taking the Palestinian side (Egypt, Iran, and Turkey) and one is divided (India). No country favors taking Israel's side, including the United States, where 71 percent favor taking neither side.

http://worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/503.php?lb=brglm&pnt=503&nid=&id=

From July, but I doubt things have changed for the better for Israel.

newton kabiddles

Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

He actually posted 4. That sometimes happens. It clearly wasn't intentional. The mods might merge them if you ask them nicely.

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Why did none show up after posting hours ago and now there are four of them?

Probably the Jews.

Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Tater wrote:

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Wow, that is a lot of misinformation! I can't tell if you are ignorant or just intend to slander, or a mix of both. I'll go with uninformed ignorance with the the intent to slander.

Thanks for proving my point that 'many' Americans simply look for excuses to dismiss their irrational collective behaviour instead of examining the true interests and motivation behind it.

Tater has proven nothing about the American people collectively.

On the other hand, the entire premise of your post has been destroyed by bangbayed:

bangbayed wrote:

Oh come on, how far do you need to look?

http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/ref/gallupisrael.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124580

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/5179_62.htm

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3215863,00.html

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Kuros wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Tater wrote:

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Wow, that is a lot of misinformation! I can't tell if you are ignorant or just intend to slander, or a mix of both. I'll go with uninformed ignorance with the the intent to slander.

Thanks for proving my point that 'many' Americans simply look for excuses to dismiss their irrational collective behaviour instead of examining the true interests and motivation behind it.

Tater has proven nothing about the American people collectively.

On the other hand, the entire premise of your post has been destroyed by bangbayed:

bangbayed wrote:

*cracks knuckles*

The first link shows American sympathizes more with the Israelis than the Palestinians (Pals). That doesn't mean Americans support their policies, much less are even aware of them. Isn't that the Commonwealth complaint, Americans wouldn't know world events from their own asshole?

Let's see, The Israel Project and the Anti-Defamation League are your second and third links. These polls should be suspect immediately, as both of them are pro-Isreal lobby groups.

Your fourth link points to the same Gallup poll as your first. Interestingly, this analysis shows that Americans have become more skeptical of a peace process after the victory of Hamas in Gaza.

Quote:

According to the poll, two out of three Americans believe the Arab countries will never agree to live in peace beside Israel; 44 percent say diplomatic relations with the Palestinians should continue only if Hamas recognizes Israel, while 22 percent believe talks should be held with the organization in any case.

The poll shows that 57 percent of Americans oppose the granting of economic aid to the Palestinians; 30 percent said they would support aid should the Palestinians recognize Israel, and only 5 percent said they back monetary assistance to the Palestinians regardless of their position on Israel.

None of these links provide any evidence of specific general support in America for Israel's policies of militancy, although we get a good idea of how they think of aid towards the Pals post-Hamas.

Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Tater wrote:

Tiger Beer wrote:

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:

Wow, that is a lot of misinformation! I can't tell if you are ignorant or just intend to slander, or a mix of both. I'll go with uninformed ignorance with the the intent to slander.

Thanks for proving my point that 'many' Americans simply look for excuses to dismiss their irrational collective behaviour instead of examining the true interests and motivation behind it.

Come on now, Yu Bum Suk. You gotta be trolling a little bit. I remember you on Asia Finest trolling the hell out of them, and you're doing it here to Americans.

No shame in it. It can be fun. I hope you're enjoying it.

RJjr

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject:

Tater wrote:

The OP is a troll who dwells on the fact that he/she is not an American. he looks at us with the petty jealousy that one might expect a Canadian to have toward Americans.

If there's one thing Canadians seem happy to have, it's universal health insurance.

When the number of Americans without health insurance outnumbers Canada's total population by over ten million, somehow I don't think he's jealous of us. Yeah, I'm really sure the OP wants to drop his health insurance and go live in a country where providing weapons for a wealthy foreign country is more important than whether or not he and his children have health insurance. But if I'm wrong and he wants to come here, maybe he'll buy up one of the foreclosed homes. The former owner's family should go live in an Israeli Merkava tank. After all, they bought it.

Leslie Cheswyck wrote:

Because a majority of Americans know who danced in the streets and who did not after 9/11.

I don't know about you, but my tax dollars were buying weapons for Israel long before 9/11, but the Palestinians should love me anyway.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject:

Here's Matt Yglesias making the same point I tried to make in this thread.

Quote:

Aaron David Miller, a 25-year veteran of U.S. diplomacy in the region, published a fascinating article in the Jan. 12 Newsweek that included his widely quoted revelation that he "can't recall one meeting where we had a serious discussion with an Israeli prime minister about the damage that settlement activity -- including land confiscation, bypass roads and housing demolitions -- does to the peacemaking process." That is, indeed, a remarkable (and deplorable) fact. But equally interesting was Miller's observation that Bill Clinton was often "privately frustrated with Netanyahu's tough policies" back during Netanyahu's spell as Prime Minister, but Clinton did not "allow those frustrations to surface publicly."

Miller's criticism of Clinton-era policy cuts deep -- not that the administration was too sympathetic to Israeli views but that even when the administration wasn't sympathetic, it didn't want to say so.

That's politics. And it's understandable politics. Most Americans with strong feelings about Israel don't actually have strong feelings about the details of Israeli policy. Had the Israeli government chosen to talk rather than start bombing back in December, Americans would have supported them. Had the Israeli government bombed for a few days and then agreed to a cease-fire, Americans would have supported that. But instead the bombing was followed up by a land invasion, so they supported that instead. And politicians follow a similar lead. As France and Egypt were working on a cease-fire proposal Wednesday, Rep. Steny Hoyer was "scrambling to push out" a nonbinding resolution in support of Israeli policy, hoping to avoid being "out hawked" by House Republicans.

While this sort of politically motivated deference is understandable, it's also incredibly counterproductive. The parties to the conflict aren't really in need of any brilliant new substantive ideas from the United States -- the basic shape of what an agreement would look like is well understood. Nor are our services as mediators really needed -- the Norwegians have proven capable of playing that role when asked, and no doubt others could do the same. What's needed is something that changes the Israeli domestic calculation -- a sense that the nature of the Israel-U.S. relationship will depend, in part, on the nature of Israeli policy vis-a-vis the Palestinians. Any administration willing to publicly chastise an Israeli government will inevitably wind up ruffling some feathers and taking political heat for it, but it will almost certainly be for the Israelis' own good. Jimmy Carter's tough-love approach didn't win him any fans among Israel's most strident supporters, but at the end of the day, the resulting Egypt-Israel peace treaty has been enormously beneficial to Israel.

Unfortunately, taking large political risks with relatively little chance of political reward even if you succeed isn't the sort of thing most politicians like to do. But that's exactly what Barack Obama is going to need to do if he wants to make a difference in this long-festering problem that endlessly complicates everything else we want to do in the Middle East.

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