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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:42 am Post subject: Re: What must it be like to be a child in Gaza? |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
These are children who can not flee Gaza. These are children who did not vote for Hamas. I do not believe this slaughter can be justified in anyway. |
We agree. Hamas' brutal exploitation of the Palestinians, like Hezbollah's forced stewardship over the Shi'a of Southern Lebanon, all encouraged ultimately by Iranian backers, is completely unacceptable. |
um, we're ignoring a bit of the other fuel sources... such as the settlements, the humiliation of their family, curfews, the taunting by the settlers, the disturbances of everyday life (halting aid, food, water, electricity, mass arrests, murders...), all of which is also unacceptable. If Isral would just stop its greed Hamas/Hezbollah/other freedom fighting organizations will slowly lose their power.
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The settlements in Gaza have been demolished.
If Israel would demolish its settlements nothing would change. Although Israel was right to demolish the settlements, it had little to no impact on Hamas. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Here is what it is like to be a child in Gaza.
Hamas uses children as sandbags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TejVJWSTTpY
Hamas Slogan: "You love life, but we love death" |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: Re: What must it be like to be a child in Gaza? |
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| Kuros wrote: |
If Israel would demolish its settlements nothing would change. Although Israel was right to demolish the settlements, it had little to no impact on Hamas. |
Sure Israel removed 8,000 settlers from Gaza but then let another 12,000 move into the west bank less than a year later. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Big Bird asked with typical one-sided concern:
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| These are children who can not flee Gaza. These are children who did not vote for Hamas. I do not believe this slaughter can be justified in anyway |
I don't think your partisanship can be justified in any way. Yet again you start a thread but claim insufficient time to respond to basic questions. You're quite the piece of work.
Still, I'll make a reply, even though I'm "busy" too:
I imagine that life for a Gazan child is in many ways the same as it is for a Jewish child in a border town, who for eight years has endured endless air raid sirens, wondered if his or her parents might be blown up by suicide bombers in the local market, or older sibling kidnapped by a terrorist group or hear stories of going to war by her uncle, her father, her grandfather, and so on. Only the Jewish child confronts little sympathy from world media opinion, and watches Muslim immigrants on TV in America, the only stauch ally of his or her country, taunt Jews with calls to go back to the ovens. And the Gazan child has to be denied a childhood devoid of vitriole by being inducted into the hate cult of Hamas and watching children's shows that depict Jews as scary creatures. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Steve, I'm beginning to find your behaviour ugly.. Your extraordinary hypocrisy with the 'one sided concern' is just mind-boggling. I just glanced at the post above, got the tone of the first couple of sentences, and decided you are a beligerent arsehole. I shan't read the rest as I suspect it was calculated to antagonise. At no time have I ever followed you around the board demanding a response from you.
I might have got round to your thread soon enough when a few hours of leisure presented itself, but now I think I'll give it - and you - a pass. I'm not interested in being bullied into a debate.
McGarrett was fun, but Middleman is too boorish. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I imagine that life for a Gazan child is in many ways the same as it is for a Jewish child in a border town, who for eight years has endured endless air raid sirens, wondered if his or her parents might be blown up by suicide bombers in the local market, or older sibling kidnapped by a terrorist group or hear stories of going to war by her uncle, her father, her grandfather, and so on. |
I don't think so.
Odds are 4:1 that those uncles, fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters, grandfathers, aunts, and cousins actually BEING blown up are related to Gazan children; no one to tell them the stories.
Odds are similar that those same people are unemployed in Gaza.
Also, Jewish parents could move their children 50km (or really only about 10 consider the rocket capacity of Hamas) and be basically unthreatened. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
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I imagine that life for a Gazan child is in many ways the same as it is for a Jewish child in a border town, who for eight years has endured endless air raid sirens, wondered if his or her parents might be blown up by suicide bombers in the local market, or older sibling kidnapped by a terrorist group or hear stories of going to war by her uncle, her father, her grandfather, and so on. |
I don't think so.
Odds are 4:1 that those uncles, fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters, grandfathers, aunts, and cousins actually BEING blown up are related to Gazan children; no one to tell them the stories.
Odds are similar that those same people are unemployed in Gaza.
Also, Jewish parents could move their children 50km (or really only about 10 consider the rocket capacity of Hamas) and be basically unthreatened. |
Yes, exactly Palestinian children have simply no place to hide. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hamas is the problem.
I posted a video link earlier that showed how Hamas fighters were stacking children up against a wall as human shields like so many sandbags.
But it was ignored by the pro-Hamas factions here.
Believe what you want.
In the final analysis Hamas, operating from the safety of Damascus, has no concern for the safety of the Gazan people.
Hamas Slogan: "You love life, but we love death"
That's their slogan their motto their philosophy.
When they say to fight to your last drop of blood they are talking about Gazan blood and not the blood of Hamas leadership. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| But it was ignored by the pro-Hamas factions here. |
I don't know if there's a pro-Hamas faction.
Maybe an "I-can-understand them-but-I-don't-support-them" faction. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
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| But it was ignored by the pro-Hamas factions here. |
I don't know if there's a pro-Hamas faction.
Maybe an "I-can-understand them-but-I-don't-support-them" faction. |
It's the old "with us or against us" logic.
If you object to terrified Palestinian families being blown to peices in their homes, then you are a keen supporter of Hamas.
If you countenance that Hamas, like it or not, are the current fairly and democratically elected representitives of Gaza, and are the people that the international community needs to speak to, then you are a keen supporter of suicide bombing.
Etc etc. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
| khyber wrote: |
| Quote: |
I imagine that life for a Gazan child is in many ways the same as it is for a Jewish child in a border town, who for eight years has endured endless air raid sirens, wondered if his or her parents might be blown up by suicide bombers in the local market, or older sibling kidnapped by a terrorist group or hear stories of going to war by her uncle, her father, her grandfather, and so on. |
I don't think so.
Odds are 4:1 that those uncles, fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters, grandfathers, aunts, and cousins actually BEING blown up are related to Gazan children; no one to tell them the stories.
Odds are similar that those same people are unemployed in Gaza.
Also, Jewish parents could move their children 50km (or really only about 10 consider the rocket capacity of Hamas) and be basically unthreatened. |
Yes, exactly Palestinian children have simply no place to hide. |
Yes, as well as the fact that an Israeli child in a border town will have access to clean running water and proper nutrition, as well as vital medical services. They can also look forward to the same opportunities and quality of life that we expect in the West. Gazan children have few opportunities, and a bleak future, and much lower life expectancy. And a much much higher expectancy of being wounded or becoming 'regretable collateral damage.'
I feel sorry for an innocent child in a town such as Sderot. But I think that on the whole their plight is not comparable with that of a Gazan child. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Four exhausted children have been discovered cowering in a house next to the bodies of their mothers by staff of the International Committee of the Red Cross, which yesterday accused the Israeli military of "unacceptable" delays in allowing medics safe access to injured Gazans.
The Red Cross workers found the children, who were so weak they could not stand, sheltering next to the bodies of their mothers in a house in Zeitoun, southeast of Gaza City.
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Israel accused of delaying medical access to injured |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Big Bird wrote:
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| Steve, I'm beginning to find your behaviour ugly.. Your extraordinary hypocrisy with the 'one sided concern' is just mind-boggling. I just glanced at the post above, got the tone of the first couple of sentences, and decided you are a beligerent arsehole. I shan't read the rest as I suspect it was calculated to antagonise. At no time have I ever followed you around the board demanding a response from you. |
Ah, right: my "behaviour" is ugly but your name-calling is appropriate.
I stated that you are being evasive and therefore acting with cowardice. I stand by that assertion and it is plain enough for all to see. And to refuse to even read what I said shows how closeminded you really are.
Where am I being hypocritical in my position? I, too, deeply regret the loss of civilian life in Gaza but I assign the lion's share of the blame where it should rest--on the shoulders of Hamas.
You still don't get it. Like a mule plodding along with blinders on, you see only the view from the road before your eyes.
And who really gives a damn whether Hamas was freely elected (their intimidation campaign against Fatah would seem to call that into question). The essential point, which you can't seem to accept is that it is an
UTTER WASTE OF TIME TO NEGOTIATE WITH HAMAS BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO GRANT ISRAEL THE RIGHT TO EXIST AS A STATE
Now, until you address this glaring reality you will continue to dump big sloppy straw(man)-strewn turds on the road of reasoning that I and others will just ignore or step over. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder will Israel ever have the balls to admit this publicly?
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Israelis admit militants not in UN school
Rory McCarthy
The Guardian, Thursday 8 January 2009
The UN said last night that the Israeli military had privately admitted that the shelling of a UN school in Jabaliya which killed more than 40 Palestinians on Tuesday was in response to militant fire from outside, not inside, the UN compound.
After the attack, the Israeli military said an initial inquiry had shown that several mortar shells had been fired at Israeli forces "from within the Jabaliya school" and that Israeli forces had returned fire.
However, a UN spokesman yesterday said the military had admitted that this account was no longer accurate. "In private briefings with diplomats the Israeli army has admitted that the militant fire from Jabaliya did not come from within a UN compound but outside and therefore allegations that this fire came from inside our compound are completely baseless," said Chris Gunness, spokesman for UNWRA.
Last night, the Israel Defence Force, stood by its initial account."The source of the fire was from within the school compound and that we returned fire and we have intelligence information that we hit the actual mortar firing squad that was firing at us," said Captain Benjamin Rutland, an Israeli military spokesman.
Earlier yesterday, John Ging, director of operations in Gaza for UNRWA, visited the school himself."I am very confident now that there was no militant activity inside the school nor militants in the school. If anybody has evidence to the contrary, then let's bring it forward."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/08/gaza-israelandthepalestinians1
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