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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Insidejohnmalkovich
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: Pusan
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Any Canadian here in Korea will agree that Korea is way too crowded. They need less people not more. You can not even have some time alone on a mountain: there are people everywhere.
It is nonsense to say an aging population is helpless. My ninety-five year old great aunt is functioning just fine. My father and his other sixty-some siblings and cousins are all productive members of society still: those who retired simply put their energies into their own businesses or volunteer work. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Insidejohnmalkovich wrote: |
Any Canadian here in Korea will agree that Korea is way too crowded. They need less people not more. You can not even have some time alone on a mountain: there are people everywhere.
It is nonsense to say an aging population is helpless. My ninety-five year old great aunt is functioning just fine |
thanks to her pensions/old age security. Your great aunt is an exception to the majority of 95-year-olds who NEED assisted living and long-term care, since we in the west send our old folks to retirement homes. Old age security platforms no-doubt heavily influence your great aunt's vote.
But this is Korea: seniors in this country tend to live with their eldest sons. DOn't expect millions of retirement homes to pop up across the country within 20 years, as this is too expensive. Expect the trend of 'living with a parent' to exacerbate. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| It is nonsense to say an aging population is helpless. |
This is nonsense.
As people age, their ability to earn declines while medical bills increase. Just look out the bus window at all the elderly collecting boxes and pushing those carts along the streets. This is at a time when the young significantly outnumber the old. What will happen in Korea in 30 years when the present working generation needs to retire? There aren't enough boxes to collect to support them all. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Korea also has the highest senior citizen poverty rate n OECD. Over 40%.
This is a super bad thing. Especially coupled with brain drain problems. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Korea also has the highest senior citizen poverty rate n OECD. Over 40%.
This is a super bad thing. Especially coupled with brain drain problems. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Fantastic essay, worth repeating.
| ontheway wrote: |
Korea is overpopulated, as is much of the world. Korea needs to have a low birthrate for quite a while until the country can level off at a sustainable population level.
It is not true that the low birthrate is a problem for the country economically. It's just that very few people understand economics. Falling birthrates deplete the massive pools of uneducated workers and human cannon fodder that socialist governments depend on. The socialistic ponzi schemes cannot continue. But, Korea will be much better off if the population falls to a much lower level.
To solve the "problems" foreseen by the government, we need only eliminate most of the government itself. These problems are problems for the government, not for the people. They were made by the government, not by the people. The people are doing the right thing, the government is not. To solve the "problems" we must eliminate the government, not regulate the people. Smash the fascist-socialist state and set the people free.
Socialism always fails. Eventually, the market will even determine the appropriate population levels for a region, country or the whole world. Only with a free market can we arrive at the appropriate levels. The pressure that socialist governments feel from "population problems" have the same root cause as the current financial meltdown. That cause is socialism itself.
Environmentalism, population levels, liberty and free markets are all inextricably intertwined. Only liberty and free markets can solve our current problems. |
Thanks for that. |
It's touching to see such unspoiled faith in the market after recent events. |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Hagwons aren't the only rip off for parents, the gov could look at how parents get fleeced for stuff like textbooks and school uniforms which they have little option but to fork out on.
Hagwons are supposed to have a limit they can charge but most ignore this, it shouldn't be that difficult to enforce.
A big reason people don't have enough kids is that thesedays both parents have to work FT, subdidized daycare has helped some European countries with this problem I think.
Mass immigration is a thorny issue for western countries heaven knows what it would do for Korea. Maybe giving ethinic Koreans from China, Russia and the Stans the benifits of an F4 visa would help with the shortage.
There's probably loads of couples who want kids but can't have them, breaking down cultural barriers to adoption (both from Korea and from overseas) is a good idea and something I think the gov is working on.
Japan has a whole gov department devoted to the birthrate problem but as far as I know they haven't come up with anything more original than getting rid of medical expenses for childbirth.
I do wonder if a reason is that just from people I've met here it seems that a lot of Japanese marry really late, like so many people in their late 30s I've talked to are getting married or just been recently wed. I think it's more difficult for women to conceive at that age...so anecdotal I know but maybe a factor. |
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Insidejohnmalkovich
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: Pusan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It is nonsense to say an aging population is helpless. |
As people age, their ability to earn declines while medical bills increase. Just look out the bus window at all the elderly collecting boxes and pushing those carts along the streets. This is at a time when the young significantly outnumber the old. What will happen in Korea in 30 years when the present working generation needs to retire? There aren't enough boxes to collect to support them all. |
Look at Germany. Tons of old people, tons of active old people. Then look at most African countries: tons of young people, tons of unemployed young people and countless wars. You cannot generalize that youth is the cure and that old age is a curse.
My great grandparents' generation had no social security. You worked until death. Your family supported each other through the generations. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Insidejohnmalkovich wrote: |
Look at Germany. Tons of old people, tons of active old people. Then look at most African countries: tons of young people, tons of unemployed young people and countless wars. You cannot generalize that youth is the cure and that old age is a curse.
My great grandparents' generation had no social security. You worked until death. Your family supported each other through the generations. |
Germans tend to live healthier lifestyles than their American counterparts, but the keyword here is 'active'. The seniors of good ol' Deutschland may live 'active' lifestyles, but contribute very little in terms of gdp since they are socialist weasels who demand lavish old-age pensions and 35-hour workweeks. Lacking Deutsch babies to fuel this system, Germans are at the mercy of immigrants to sustain the gluttony.
Your analogies b/w Germany and Africa are inherently false. Apples and oranges. Africa has few jobs to begin with, and life expectancy is half that of their northern continental neighbors. Perhaps Africa would benefit from less ou-of-control reproduction, but this point is moot, since we are discussing something entirely different. France, Germany, (and all of Europe for that matter) would be much better off if they reproduced. And they've gotten over their war-mongering ways.
Your great-grandparents' generation had no social security since this was the family's job back then; NOT the government's. (Most of our great-grandparents had 10 siblings) Government now does what family once did, albeit poorly. And on this topic I agree with you; the welfare state is unsustainable and destined for failure. But Michael More is just so darned persuasive, ain't he !? |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Sigh.
The world needs to stop this nonsense about increasing the population of nations. Yes, it is bad for the economy in the short term to have more old people than young people. But let's look long-term. The planet cannot possibly sustain 6 billion people for much longer, much less more than that.
We're overdue for a population contraction. Let it happen! |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
Sigh.
The world needs to stop this nonsense about increasing the population of nations. Yes, it is bad for the economy in the short term to have more old people than young people. But let's look long-term. The planet cannot possibly sustain 6 billion people for much longer, much less more than that.
We're overdue for a population contraction. Let it happen! |
Ageing populations and population contractions have no deleterious effects on a free market economy. Free markets can easily adjust. In fact, having an ageing, educated, experienced workforce, reductions in crime, and a lifetime of accumulated assets being inherited by less numerous decendants can and should increase the wealth and prosperity of a nation.
It's the unfunded liabilities of a socialist government that cause suffering during a population contraction. Of course, they also cause suffering during the expansion. Ponzi schemes are illegal except when run by the government.
Save the world. Abolish socialism. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| When you look at how much food the USA produces and exports, it's looking like the world is in for a rude awakening when our production falls because of farmers who can't afford fertilizer, seed, machinery, property taxes, etc. |
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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Well, guess it's time I did my duty for Uncle Sam- er, Uncle Lee  and solve this problem. Stand aside, boys/netizens. Let a man's man take care of this problem. 
President Lee, I'm going to need the following:
1 hotel. The whole hotel. Preferably a nice one.
The phone numbers of every woman of breeding age in Korea. Married ones included. Ugly ones too. Yes, desperate times call for desperate measures. You can be Churchill or Chamberlain, Hoover or FDR, Mario or Luigi.
Each room will be stocked with silk sheets, MP3 players loaded with Barry White or Boyz 2 men, scented candles, and a DVD player with some chick flicks. The rooms in this country already come stocked with towels and body lotion. 5 different types of alcohol should be in the fridge as well as 5 different types of chocolate candy.
Outside staff will be vital to this operation, so don't be squeamish about recruiting from abroad. Don't worry- this can be accomplished with as little as 14 North American males. Why so few? They don't like to share.
In 9 months time, with as little as 10 billion won, you won't have a birthrate problem to be worried about. You'll have other things to worry about President Lee, but that's not why you hired me. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| agentX wrote: |
Well, guess it's time I did my duty for Uncle Sam- er, Uncle Lee and solve this problem. Stand aside, boys/netizens. Let a man's man take care of this problem.
President Lee, I'm going to need the following:
1 hotel. The whole hotel. Preferably a nice one.
The phone numbers of every woman of breeding age in Korea. Married ones included. Ugly ones too. Yes, desperate times call for desperate measures. You can be Churchill or Chamberlain, Hoover or FDR, Mario or Luigi.
Each room will be stocked with silk sheets, MP3 players loaded with Barry White or Boyz 2 men, scented candles, and a DVD player with some chick flicks. The rooms in this country already come stocked with towels and body lotion. 5 different types of alcohol should be in the fridge as well as 5 different types of chocolate candy.
Outside staff will be vital to this operation, so don't be squeamish about recruiting from abroad. Don't worry- this can be accomplished with as little as 14 North American males. Why so few? They don't like to share.
In 9 months time, with as little as 10 billion won, you won't have a birthrate problem to be worried about. You'll have other things to worry about President Lee, but that's not why you hired me. |
And so will you. Roughly 25 million child support payments. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
Sigh.
The world needs to stop this nonsense about increasing the population of nations. Yes, it is bad for the economy in the short term to have more old people than young people. But let's look long-term. The planet cannot possibly sustain 6 billion people for much longer, much less more than that.
We're overdue for a population contraction. Let it happen! |
We appreciate your contribution, Paul Ehrlich. |
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