|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
 |
|
For anyone else, who does have an interest in gender politics in Afghanistan, here is a website you may find interesting:
http://www.rawa.org/index.php
Here is a recent interview (Eman is an Afghani and an agitator for women's rights in Afghanistan).
| Quote: |
Sonali Kolhatkar: Many on the American left are celebrating the election of Barack Obama to the presidency of the US. But while he has pledged to end the Iraq war, he has also promised to increase troops in Afghanistan. What is your opinion of Barack Obama and his stated policy on Afghanistan?
Eman: We can easily judge Obama from what he said in one of his recent interviews that he does not feel the need to apologize to the Afghan people. We do not consider this [the result of] a lack of information. But didn�t he feel the need to apologize for the wrong policies of the US government for the past three decades in our country? Didn�t he feel the need to apologize for the fundamentalist-fostering policies of the US government in creating, arming, and supporting these brutal, misogynist groups like the Northern Alliance and other fascist groups during the past three decades? Didn�t he feel the need to apologize for the occupation of our country under the banner of democracy, the so-called �war on terror,� and women�s rights, but then compromise with terrorists like the Northern Alliance, who cannot be distinguished from the Taliban in the history of their criminal acts? In fact these murderers were the first to destroy our nation. And even after seven years of a very long and very costly �war on terror,� terrorism has not been uprooted in Afghanistan but has become stronger and the Taliban are becoming more powerful. Plus recently [the US is] talking about negotiating with the most wanted terrorist, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, and with the Taliban, which is in contradiction with what they claimed and what their main objective was in occupying Afghanistan.
From his statements during his election campaign, we don�t think that Obama�s position is different from the Bush administration; it is the continuation of Bush�s foreign policy. As Obama�s first message to our country was that of war, we cannot be hopeful about him. From his statements during his election campaign, we don�t think that Obama�s position is different from the Bush administration; it is the continuation of Bush�s foreign policy. As Obama�s first message to our country was that of war, we cannot be hopeful about him.
Kolhatkar: Do you think the troops should be withdrawn and if so, what will happen in Afghanistan if US/NATO forces leave Afghanistan?
Eman: RAWA strongly believes that whatever happens, a withdrawal of foreign troops should be the first step, because today, with the presence of thousands of troops in Afghanistan, with the presence of many foreign countries in our nation, for the majority of our people particularly poor people in the other provinces of Afghanistan outside Kabul, the situation is so bad that it cannot get any worse. Today they are also suffering from insecurity, killing, kidnapping, rape, acid throwing on school girls (as happened just last week), hunger, lawlessness, lack of freedom of speech (with journalist Parwiz Kambakhsh being imprisoned), After seven years of occupation [the US] failed to bring peace, security, democracy, and women�s rights that they claimed. I think seven years is quite enough time to prove that democracy and peace cannot be brought by foreigners. It can only be achieved by our own people by democratic organizations and individuals. It�s our responsibility to become united as an alternative against the occupation, to rise up, to resist and to organize our people.
Obviously it is very difficult. No one can predict how long it will take, how much blood, how much sacrifice, and what price should be paid. But this is the only solution, as RAWA has always emphasized.
Right now our people are under attack from different sides. From one side we have the Taliban, from the other side are the US air strikes, and from another side are the Northern Alliance warlords in different provinces. We are in a political confusion. With the withdrawal [of troops] our people will at least get rid of one of these enemies.
We believe that even with the withdrawal of the troops they have a moral duty towards Afghanistan as they have empowered these dangerous fundamentalist groups economically; and given them arms which were a big threat to the security of our country. If the US and its allies are kind enough to try to help us and they are honest in their claim of helping our people then they can prove it in other ways. They can prove it by the disarmament of armed groups. They can prove it by stopping any kind of support, help and compromise with any fundamentalist groups by helping our people to prosecute our war criminals of three decades. They can do this by supporting democratic voices. So they have other alternatives to help us if they really want to.
Kolhatkar: Hamid Karzai�s tenure is up next year and there are to be new elections. What do you think needs to happen before the elections, and is there any chance the elections could bring some positive change inside Afghanistan?
RAWA strongly believes that whatever happens, a withdrawal of foreign troops should be the first step Eman: We have two kinds of elections ahead of us: parliamentary and presidential. About the presidential election, everyone knows that the White House determines who is going to be the next president. Our public�s votes are just used as a formality. But what we are sure of is that the next president will not be independent or a real democrat. So our people are not so hopeful about those elections.
About the parliamentary elections, it is important to state that this election, like the last one, will be conducted under the shadow of guns, airpower and money. So we cannot call it a fair and free election. For a fair and free election to be held we think that disarmament of the powerful warlords which have private armies in different provinces, is a necessary factor. Otherwise it will be a repeat of the last election. For example, according to a law made by the Election Commission, warlords cannot take part in the elections. The last time, our people appealed to the election commission against criminal candidates and drug lords with evidence but nobody paid attention to them and these most-wanted murderers found their way to parliament. There were just a very few exceptions who were really elected by the people. The majority were well-known murderers, criminals, and rapists.
Kolhatkar: In RAWA�s recent statement on the 7th anniversary of the US war on October 7th, you say �Our freedom is only achievable at the hands of our people.� How strong are democratic grassroots forces in Afghanistan, and are they capable of rising up and leading the country?
Eman: Unfortunately the democratic forces are very weak due to many reasons. The two main reasons are, firstly, financial problems because there is no government support at all, and powerful international forces like the United Nations have never been interested in supporting democratic groups, individuals, and voices. Secondly they are weak for security reasons, which have always suppressed these groups. We believe that the main source of power lies with our people. Today they have become hopeless with false promises from the West of establishing democracy. And moreover people are fed-up of the fundamentalism of the Taliban, Northern Alliance, and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, etc. So today if we witness demonstrations organized by our suffering and tired people, tomorrow they will be much more organized under the leadership of democratic movements. So we should not lose our hope. The groups are weak but they exist. I think it�s the duty of democratic forces all over the world to support democratic movements in Afghanistan and they should show their practical solidarity with them.
Kolhatkar: When we started our conversation, you weren�t very optimistic about Barack Obama�s stated policy on Afghanistan. What advice would you give President Elect Barack Obama, when he takes office in January?
Eman: We believe that if the American government does not have any bad, expansionist, hidden intentions regarding our country then they have to accept and change their long-term mistakes and wrong policies in our country. In the early 1990s they supported the anti-democratic, anti-women forces and they still have not learned a lesson and still they rely on and compromise with the different fundamentalist groups, which makes the situation of our country even worse. So from one side they are still nourishing and working with those drug lords and warlords of the Northern Alliance. And from the other side they complain about drugs, corruption and insecurity which is a painful game with the destiny of our people, who do not want more troops and war. Our people want justice, peace, and democracy.
After seven years of occupation [the US] failed to bring peace, security, democracy, and women�s rights that they claimed. I think seven years is quite enough time to prove that democracy and peace cannot be brought by foreigners. It can only be achieved by our own people by democratic organizations and individuals. As the US failed with spending billions of dollars on the presence of thousands of troops for the past seven years, I�m sure that they will fail even if they bring millions more troops as long as the American government does not change its policies in Afghanistan.
Kolhatkar: Finally, what advice would you give the American anti-war movement on what Afghanistan needs from them?
Eman: Since the US government has always supported fundamentalist groups and ignored democratic voices in our country, I think that the US government does not represent all American people. But there are great American people and great peace movements who have always raised their voice against war and defended peace with justice. History shows that these movements have always affected government policies, for example on the Vietnam war. So I think that they have a great responsibility to put pressure on their government and especially its foreign policy, to change the policy and to withdraw their troops from Afghanistan. And they have to show their solidarity with the democratic movements in Afghanistan. It�s very very important for us and we need their voices. But I just read an article that some parts of the US peace movements are supporting the Iranian government. We condemn this position because we consider the Iranian government a fundamentalist, fascist government. But as long as the peace movement is concerned, we need their solidarity and we are very happy to have their support.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
.
From the biggest newspaper of Pakistan:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21357
| Quote: |
Swat girl denies flogging by Taliban
Monday, April 06, 2009
By Rahimullah Yusufzai
PESHAWAR: Chand Bibi, the young girl who was shown being flogged by the Swat Taliban in a videotape aired on television channels, gave a statement to a Qazi, or judge, on Sunday, denying the incident.
Mian Iftikhar Hussain, the NWFP information minister, told The News that she made the statement to Mohammad Riaz, the judge of the Qazi Court for Matta Tehsil, and the commissioner of Malakand division, Syed Mohammad Javed, both of whom visited her village, Kala Killay, in Kabal Swat district on Sunday.
Quoting the commissioner, Mian Iftikhar said the girl, Chand Bibi, made it clear that she was indeed married to Adalat Khan and everyone in the village knew about it. She refuted the reports that both of them were flogged by the Taliban as punishment for maintaining illicit relations and then forcibly married.
According to the information minister, the commissioner and the judge had visited Kala Killay to record the statements of the couple on the directive of the chief secretary of the NWFP. The chief secretary and Inspector General of Police, NWFP, had been directed by Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, to appear before his court and also produce the girl who was flogged. The chief justice had taken suo moto notice of the case after the two-minute videotape was repeatedly shown on TV channels.
The incident caused outrage in Pakistan and provoked members of the civil society and others to stage protests in many cities of the country. The flogging of the girl, stated to be 17-years old, was condemned by most political parties, human rights organisations and even religious scholars.
Mian Iftikhar disclosed that Chand Bibi had expressed her inability to appear before the Supreme Court as she and her family felt it wasn�t appropriate for a purdah-observing Pakhtun girl to do so in the presence of TV cameras and onlookers. �She requested the judge and the commissioner to spare her from appearing in the court in Islamabad,� he said.
However, her husband, Adalat Khan, was ready to appear in the Supreme Court. Mian Iftikhar said the judge, Mohammad Riaz, also recorded the statement of Adalat Khan and he also denied the reports that he or his wife, Chand Bibi, had been lashed by the Taliban. �Adalat Khan wondered as to why nobody in their village knew about this incident. He insisted that no such incident had taken place in Kala Killay,� the minister said.
Iftikhar lamented that a fake video had been used to tarnish the reputation of the people of Swat and disrupt the peace process in the district. �We condemn the acts of repression against women. We too are outraged when extremist elements commit atrocities against women and also men. But the incident depicted in the videotape never took place in Swat,� he argued.
He felt the timing of the release of the videotape was intriguing. �It appears to be part of a conspiracy to foil the peace agreement in Swat and put pressure on President Zardari not to sign the Nizam-i-Adl Regulation for Malakand division,� he said.
|
The second biggest newspaper of Pakistan:
| Quote: |
Taliban term girl's flogging visual fake
By: Ibrahim Khankhel | Published: April 05, 2009
MINGORA - In the wake of growing resentment over flogging of the young girl in public, the Taliban militants have taken another turn, when their spokesman Muslim Khan on Saturday termed the visual as fake.
Soon after making public the visual, the Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan contradicted the involvement of Taliban in such an inhuman punishment. But later in special interviews with several radio and TV channels, Muslim Khan not only confirmed such act on the part of TTP, Swat Chapter, but also defended it terming the same to be in accordance with the Islamic injunctions.
Talking to media in Dakorak village near Charbagh town of Swat district, Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan termed the visual pertaining to flogging of the girl as fake, saying �Certain elements are bent upon sabotaging the peace agreement in Swat.� He also dubbed such visuals as a part of conspiracies being hatched against the Taliban.
The TTP Swat spokesman on this occasion paraded four teenaged boys before media, who claimed flogging the woman in a village of Kabal Tehsil. All the four boys were part of Taliban militants. However, Muslim Khan contradicted the reports regarding the age of the victim and said, �She is not 17 but 34 years old, who according to him was involved in illegitimate relations with her father-in-law.� While the media reports reveal that the girl was charged for meeting a young boy, who was also flogged.
Muslim Khan also claimed that the woman was not put on ground and flogged through backside but she was punished with flogging in standing position. He said that such visuals seemed to be fake and mock, with aim of sabotaging the peace process in Swat.
Referring to the suo motu notice by the Chief Justice of Pakistan, Muslim Khan said that this notice was not against them but against those who had made what he claimed �fake visuals.� He said that the Chief Justice of Pakistan must take similar notice of killing of innocent people in Swat, tribal regions and other places at the hands of the security forces.
Muslim Khan said they had no other objective except the enforcement of Islamic Shariah. In this respect, he expressed satisfaction with the steps being initiated by the NWFP Govt.
He said that now Qazi Courts resumed functions and this could help them in getting easy and early justice. |
From one of the most popular news channels of Pakistan:
| Quote: |
Aaj News Exclusive
Malakand commissioner had confirmed in his report given to government that the video of 17 year old girl flogged in swat is fake. Moreover, taliban had also denied that no such incident took place on 3 january but they confirmd that a woman was flogged about 7 months ago but not on 3 january and her film was also not made and this is a propaganda to subotagae swat peace process.
SWAT ( 2009-04-05 01:31:11 ) :Swat Taliban have termed fake the video of flogging a 17 years old girl released on Thursday last. Haji Muslim Khan during a press conference on Saturday denied the video and said that such incident had not happened in Swat.
Muslim Khan said the people who gave punishment to the girl were not resembling with Swat Taliban in their accent and face structures.
About the current video, he said this incident was not occurred in any area of the valley.
He said the woman was accused that she had affairs with her father in-law, however, independent sources had not confirmed.
He also acknowledged that an incident of such type had happened seven months ago in Kod Korak area of Charbagh in which a woman was flogged.
Muslim Khan claimed that locals had complained about the woman who was captured by Taliban and she was being forced to confess her guilty and she was flogged by four young children in a roadside old house, he said.
Taliban spokesman alongwith media team visited the area where this incident had occurred and met them with those four children who told the journalists that the incident was happened seven months ago.
The children also told journalists that they had flogged the woman seventeen times.
Muslim Khan asked why the government did not take notice of Jamia Hafsa incident and killing of innocent people in Swat.
|
Please note that the investigation has been initiated upon the order of Chief Justice of Pakistan, so please be patient before you start judging based upon western hearsays even before the court's decision.
Interestingly, if you Google this event then most of the alleging news is coming from the typical western news sources while most of the news about denial of such event is coming from local news sources of Pakistan.
Same bigotry is witnessed when western news sources don't give a damn about 40 to 50 men, women and children burned alive through each Drone attack but they are moaning to death because there came an alleged video of a girl who was "lashed 35 times" and immediately stood up after as if she was kissed 35 times.
Now why this video depicts more cruel scene? Because there does not exist any "cruel scene to show" for the drone attacks. Only because you do not see 40 or 50 people crying and moaning while they are getting melted down by a Drone attack, that does not mean it did not happen.
For the sake of arguments or whatever... Lets say that video is 100% genuine showing the illiterate, uncivilized Taliban. Then what do you think of the nation who calls herself the most civilized and free state in the world? I wonder if anybody of you will confess that the crimes of burning dozens of people alive committed by the attacks of such a "civilized" state, AKA "state terrorism" is much more horrible and condemnable than the crimes of lashing a bunch of women by a bunch of illiterate uncivilized group of people?
Oh, I remember, since you are a western/American patriot so why in the world would you confess about this reality? OK, am I judging you? Sorry but you started this "early bigoted judgment" rampage yourself.
Moral of the story: You hear the cries of a girl and suspect the people around are Taliban and you go explode your hatred on media. In contrast, you don't see the cries of dozens of men, women and children getting butchered and burned alive in Drone attacks and given that they are being melted down in the name of "war on terror" by the world Policeman called USA? then everything is fine and dandy.
Regards,
CG. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CyberGuy wrote: |
.
From the biggest newspaper of Pakistan:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21357
| Quote: |
Swat girl denies flogging by Taliban
Monday, April 06, 2009
By Rahimullah Yusufzai
PESHAWAR: Chand Bibi, the young girl who was shown being flogged by the Swat Taliban in a videotape aired on television channels, gave a statement to a Qazi, or judge, on Sunday, denying the incident.
Mian Iftikhar Hussain, the NWFP information minister, told The News that she made the statement to Mohammad Riaz, the judge of the Qazi Court for Matta Tehsil, and the commissioner of Malakand division, Syed Mohammad Javed, both of whom visited her village, Kala Killay, in Kabal Swat district on Sunday.
Quoting the commissioner, Mian Iftikhar said the girl, Chand Bibi, made it clear that she was indeed married to Adalat Khan and everyone in the village knew about it. She refuted the reports that both of them were flogged by the Taliban as punishment for maintaining illicit relations and then forcibly married.
According to the information minister, the commissioner and the judge had visited Kala Killay to record the statements of the couple on the directive of the chief secretary of the NWFP. The chief secretary and Inspector General of Police, NWFP, had been directed by Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, to appear before his court and also produce the girl who was flogged. The chief justice had taken suo moto notice of the case after the two-minute videotape was repeatedly shown on TV channels.
The incident caused outrage in Pakistan and provoked members of the civil society and others to stage protests in many cities of the country. The flogging of the girl, stated to be 17-years old, was condemned by most political parties, human rights organisations and even religious scholars.
Mian Iftikhar disclosed that Chand Bibi had expressed her inability to appear before the Supreme Court as she and her family felt it wasn�t appropriate for a purdah-observing Pakhtun girl to do so in the presence of TV cameras and onlookers. �She requested the judge and the commissioner to spare her from appearing in the court in Islamabad,� he said.
However, her husband, Adalat Khan, was ready to appear in the Supreme Court. Mian Iftikhar said the judge, Mohammad Riaz, also recorded the statement of Adalat Khan and he also denied the reports that he or his wife, Chand Bibi, had been lashed by the Taliban. �Adalat Khan wondered as to why nobody in their village knew about this incident. He insisted that no such incident had taken place in Kala Killay,� the minister said.
Iftikhar lamented that a fake video had been used to tarnish the reputation of the people of Swat and disrupt the peace process in the district. �We condemn the acts of repression against women. We too are outraged when extremist elements commit atrocities against women and also men. But the incident depicted in the videotape never took place in Swat,� he argued.
He felt the timing of the release of the videotape was intriguing. �It appears to be part of a conspiracy to foil the peace agreement in Swat and put pressure on President Zardari not to sign the Nizam-i-Adl Regulation for Malakand division,� he said.
|
The second biggest newspaper of Pakistan:
| Quote: |
Taliban term girl's flogging visual fake
By: Ibrahim Khankhel | Published: April 05, 2009
MINGORA - In the wake of growing resentment over flogging of the young girl in public, the Taliban militants have taken another turn, when their spokesman Muslim Khan on Saturday termed the visual as fake.
Soon after making public the visual, the Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan contradicted the involvement of Taliban in such an inhuman punishment. But later in special interviews with several radio and TV channels, Muslim Khan not only confirmed such act on the part of TTP, Swat Chapter, but also defended it terming the same to be in accordance with the Islamic injunctions.
Talking to media in Dakorak village near Charbagh town of Swat district, Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan termed the visual pertaining to flogging of the girl as fake, saying �Certain elements are bent upon sabotaging the peace agreement in Swat.� He also dubbed such visuals as a part of conspiracies being hatched against the Taliban.
The TTP Swat spokesman on this occasion paraded four teenaged boys before media, who claimed flogging the woman in a village of Kabal Tehsil. All the four boys were part of Taliban militants. However, Muslim Khan contradicted the reports regarding the age of the victim and said, �She is not 17 but 34 years old, who according to him was involved in illegitimate relations with her father-in-law.� While the media reports reveal that the girl was charged for meeting a young boy, who was also flogged.
Muslim Khan also claimed that the woman was not put on ground and flogged through backside but she was punished with flogging in standing position. He said that such visuals seemed to be fake and mock, with aim of sabotaging the peace process in Swat.
Referring to the suo motu notice by the Chief Justice of Pakistan, Muslim Khan said that this notice was not against them but against those who had made what he claimed �fake visuals.� He said that the Chief Justice of Pakistan must take similar notice of killing of innocent people in Swat, tribal regions and other places at the hands of the security forces.
Muslim Khan said they had no other objective except the enforcement of Islamic Shariah. In this respect, he expressed satisfaction with the steps being initiated by the NWFP Govt.
He said that now Qazi Courts resumed functions and this could help them in getting easy and early justice. |
From one of the most popular news channels of Pakistan:
| Quote: |
Aaj News Exclusive
Malakand commissioner had confirmed in his report given to government that the video of 17 year old girl flogged in swat is fake. Moreover, taliban had also denied that no such incident took place on 3 january but they confirmd that a woman was flogged about 7 months ago but not on 3 january and her film was also not made and this is a propaganda to subotagae swat peace process.
SWAT ( 2009-04-05 01:31:11 ) :Swat Taliban have termed fake the video of flogging a 17 years old girl released on Thursday last. Haji Muslim Khan during a press conference on Saturday denied the video and said that such incident had not happened in Swat.
Muslim Khan said the people who gave punishment to the girl were not resembling with Swat Taliban in their accent and face structures.
About the current video, he said this incident was not occurred in any area of the valley.
He said the woman was accused that she had affairs with her father in-law, however, independent sources had not confirmed.
He also acknowledged that an incident of such type had happened seven months ago in Kod Korak area of Charbagh in which a woman was flogged.
Muslim Khan claimed that locals had complained about the woman who was captured by Taliban and she was being forced to confess her guilty and she was flogged by four young children in a roadside old house, he said.
Taliban spokesman alongwith media team visited the area where this incident had occurred and met them with those four children who told the journalists that the incident was happened seven months ago.
The children also told journalists that they had flogged the woman seventeen times.
Muslim Khan asked why the government did not take notice of Jamia Hafsa incident and killing of innocent people in Swat.
|
Please note that the investigation has been initiated upon the order of Chief Justice of Pakistan, so please be patient before you start judging based upon western hearsays even before the court's decision.
Interestingly, if you Google this event then most of the alleging news is coming from the typical western news sources while most of the news about denial of such event is coming from local news sources of Pakistan.
Same bigotry is witnessed when western news sources don't give a damn about 40 to 50 men, women and children burned alive through each Drone attack but they are moaning to death because there came an alleged video of a girl who was "lashed 35 times" and immediately stood up after as if she was kissed 35 times.
Now why this video depicts more cruel scene? Because there does not exist any "cruel scene to show" for the drone attacks. Only because you do not see 40 or 50 people crying and moaning while they are getting melted down by a Drone attack, that does not mean it did not happen.
For the sake of arguments or whatever... Lets say that video is 100% genuine showing the illiterate, uncivilized Taliban. Then what do you think of the nation who calls herself the most civilized and free state in the world? I wonder if anybody of you will confess that the crimes of burning dozens of people alive committed by the attacks of such a "civilized" state, AKA "state terrorism" is much more horrible and condemnable than the crimes of lashing a bunch of women by a bunch of illiterate uncivilized group of people?
Oh, I remember, since you are a western/American patriot so why in the world would you confess about this reality? OK, am I judging you? Sorry but you started this "early bigoted judgment" rampage yourself.
Moral of the story: You hear the cries of a girl and suspect the people around are Taliban and you go explode your hatred on media. In contrast, you don't see the cries of dozens of men, women and children getting butchered and burned alive in Drone attacks and given that they are being melted down in the name of "war on terror" by the world Policeman called USA? then everything is fine and dandy.
Regards,
CG. |
Cyberguy:
What are you talking about? What is your argument? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Beej wrote: |
Cyberguy:
What are you talking about? What is your argument? |
What am I talking about? How to grow potatoes on your head? Can't you read what I quoted? I thought these quotes were from English news sources and weren't translated by me.
Also, you can find my arguments at the end of the quoted news sources. If you can understand it then ask a friend for help. Let me help ya read again:
From the biggest newspaper of Pakistan:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21357
| Quote: |
Swat girl denies flogging by Taliban
Monday, April 06, 2009
By Rahimullah Yusufzai
PESHAWAR: Chand Bibi, the young girl who was shown being flogged by the Swat Taliban in a videotape aired on television channels, gave a statement to a Qazi, or judge, on Sunday, denying the incident.
Mian Iftikhar Hussain, the NWFP information minister, told The News that she made the statement to Mohammad Riaz, the judge of the Qazi Court for Matta Tehsil, and the commissioner of Malakand division, Syed Mohammad Javed, both of whom visited her village, Kala Killay, in Kabal Swat district on Sunday.
Quoting the commissioner, Mian Iftikhar said the girl, Chand Bibi, made it clear that she was indeed married to Adalat Khan and everyone in the village knew about it. She refuted the reports that both of them were flogged by the Taliban as punishment for maintaining illicit relations and then forcibly married.
According to the information minister, the commissioner and the judge had visited Kala Killay to record the statements of the couple on the directive of the chief secretary of the NWFP. The chief secretary and Inspector General of Police, NWFP, had been directed by Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, to appear before his court and also produce the girl who was flogged. The chief justice had taken suo moto notice of the case after the two-minute videotape was repeatedly shown on TV channels.
The incident caused outrage in Pakistan and provoked members of the civil society and others to stage protests in many cities of the country. The flogging of the girl, stated to be 17-years old, was condemned by most political parties, human rights organisations and even religious scholars.
Mian Iftikhar disclosed that Chand Bibi had expressed her inability to appear before the Supreme Court as she and her family felt it wasn�t appropriate for a purdah-observing Pakhtun girl to do so in the presence of TV cameras and onlookers. �She requested the judge and the commissioner to spare her from appearing in the court in Islamabad,� he said.
However, her husband, Adalat Khan, was ready to appear in the Supreme Court. Mian Iftikhar said the judge, Mohammad Riaz, also recorded the statement of Adalat Khan and he also denied the reports that he or his wife, Chand Bibi, had been lashed by the Taliban. �Adalat Khan wondered as to why nobody in their village knew about this incident. He insisted that no such incident had taken place in Kala Killay,� the minister said.
Iftikhar lamented that a fake video had been used to tarnish the reputation of the people of Swat and disrupt the peace process in the district. �We condemn the acts of repression against women. We too are outraged when extremist elements commit atrocities against women and also men. But the incident depicted in the videotape never took place in Swat,� he argued.
He felt the timing of the release of the videotape was intriguing. �It appears to be part of a conspiracy to foil the peace agreement in Swat and put pressure on President Zardari not to sign the Nizam-i-Adl Regulation for Malakand division,� he said.
|
The second biggest newspaper of Pakistan:
| Quote: |
Taliban term girl's flogging visual fake
By: Ibrahim Khankhel | Published: April 05, 2009
MINGORA - In the wake of growing resentment over flogging of the young girl in public, the Taliban militants have taken another turn, when their spokesman Muslim Khan on Saturday termed the visual as fake.
Soon after making public the visual, the Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan contradicted the involvement of Taliban in such an inhuman punishment. But later in special interviews with several radio and TV channels, Muslim Khan not only confirmed such act on the part of TTP, Swat Chapter, but also defended it terming the same to be in accordance with the Islamic injunctions.
Talking to media in Dakorak village near Charbagh town of Swat district, Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan termed the visual pertaining to flogging of the girl as fake, saying �Certain elements are bent upon sabotaging the peace agreement in Swat.� He also dubbed such visuals as a part of conspiracies being hatched against the Taliban.
The TTP Swat spokesman on this occasion paraded four teenaged boys before media, who claimed flogging the woman in a village of Kabal Tehsil. All the four boys were part of Taliban militants. However, Muslim Khan contradicted the reports regarding the age of the victim and said, �She is not 17 but 34 years old, who according to him was involved in illegitimate relations with her father-in-law.� While the media reports reveal that the girl was charged for meeting a young boy, who was also flogged.
Muslim Khan also claimed that the woman was not put on ground and flogged through backside but she was punished with flogging in standing position. He said that such visuals seemed to be fake and mock, with aim of sabotaging the peace process in Swat.
Referring to the suo motu notice by the Chief Justice of Pakistan, Muslim Khan said that this notice was not against them but against those who had made what he claimed �fake visuals.� He said that the Chief Justice of Pakistan must take similar notice of killing of innocent people in Swat, tribal regions and other places at the hands of the security forces.
Muslim Khan said they had no other objective except the enforcement of Islamic Shariah. In this respect, he expressed satisfaction with the steps being initiated by the NWFP Govt.
He said that now Qazi Courts resumed functions and this could help them in getting easy and early justice. |
From one of the most popular news channels of Pakistan:
| Quote: |
Aaj News Exclusive
Malakand commissioner had confirmed in his report given to government that the video of 17 year old girl flogged in swat is fake. Moreover, taliban had also denied that no such incident took place on 3 january but they confirmd that a woman was flogged about 7 months ago but not on 3 january and her film was also not made and this is a propaganda to subotagae swat peace process.
SWAT ( 2009-04-05 01:31:11 ) :Swat Taliban have termed fake the video of flogging a 17 years old girl released on Thursday last. Haji Muslim Khan during a press conference on Saturday denied the video and said that such incident had not happened in Swat.
Muslim Khan said the people who gave punishment to the girl were not resembling with Swat Taliban in their accent and face structures.
About the current video, he said this incident was not occurred in any area of the valley.
He said the woman was accused that she had affairs with her father in-law, however, independent sources had not confirmed.
He also acknowledged that an incident of such type had happened seven months ago in Kod Korak area of Charbagh in which a woman was flogged.
Muslim Khan claimed that locals had complained about the woman who was captured by Taliban and she was being forced to confess her guilty and she was flogged by four young children in a roadside old house, he said.
Taliban spokesman alongwith media team visited the area where this incident had occurred and met them with those four children who told the journalists that the incident was happened seven months ago.
The children also told journalists that they had flogged the woman seventeen times.
Muslim Khan asked why the government did not take notice of Jamia Hafsa incident and killing of innocent people in Swat.
|
Please note that the investigation has been initiated upon the order of Chief Justice of Pakistan, so please be patient before you start judging based upon western hearsays even before the court's decision.
Interestingly, if you Google this event then most of the alleging news is coming from the typical western news sources while most of the news about denial of such event is coming from local news sources of Pakistan.
Same bigotry is witnessed when western news sources don't give a damn about 40 to 50 men, women and children burned alive through each Drone attack but they are moaning to death because there came an alleged video of a girl who was "lashed 35 times" and immediately stood up after as if she was kissed 35 times.
Now why this video depicts more cruel scene? Because there does not exist any "cruel scene to show" for the drone attacks. Only because you do not see 40 or 50 people crying and moaning while they are getting melted down by a Drone attack, that does not mean it did not happen.
For the sake of arguments or whatever... Lets say that video is 100% genuine showing the illiterate, uncivilized Taliban. Then what do you think of the nation who calls herself the most civilized and free state in the world? I wonder if anybody of you will confess that the crimes of burning dozens of people alive committed by the attacks of such a "civilized" state, AKA "state terrorism" is much more horrible and condemnable than the crimes of lashing a bunch of women by a bunch of illiterate uncivilized group of people?
Oh, I remember, since you are a western/American patriot so why in the world would you confess about this reality? OK, am I judging you? Sorry but you started this "early bigoted judgment" rampage yourself.
Moral of the story: You hear the cries of a girl and suspect the people around are Taliban and you go explode your hatred on media. In contrast, you don't see the cries of dozens of men, women and children getting butchered and burned alive in Drone attacks and given that they are being melted down in the name of "war on terror" by the world Policeman called USA? then everything is fine and dandy.
Regards,
CG. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="CyberGuy"]
| Beej wrote: |
Cyberguy:
What are you talking about? What is your argument? |
What am I talking about? How to grow potatoes on your head? Can't you read what I quoted? I thought these quotes were from English news sources and weren't translated by me.
Also, you can find my arguments at the end of the quoted news sources. If you can understand it then ask a friend for help. Let me help ya read again:
Your writing is atrocious and your thoughts are all over the place. Who "exploded their hatred" on the media and why?
My reading is fine sir. I think you are the one who needs help in writing your thoughts clearly.
For the record, drone attacks rule.
Last edited by Beej on Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
It's causing outrage in Pakistan as we speak. This extreme brand of Islam is actually quite new to that region of the world, and has been exported from the Middle East, via the Islamic warriors we paid to fight the Russians and now via the Taleban to whom we were supposed to have dealt such a blow but whose influence and power is now spreading from Afghanistan into Pakistan.
Let's give ourselves a good pat on the back. |
Or you could blame the people in the video as autonomous actors capable from knowing right from wrong.
Unbelievable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
It's causing outrage in Pakistan as we speak. This extreme brand of Islam is actually quite new to that region of the world, and has been exported from the Middle East, via the Islamic warriors we paid to fight the Russians and now via the Taleban to whom we were supposed to have dealt such a blow but whose influence and power is now spreading from Afghanistan into Pakistan.
Let's give ourselves a good pat on the back. |
Or you could blame the people in the video as autonomous actors capable from knowing right from wrong.
Unbelievable. |
You are unbelievable. I did not say they were free of blame. The are clearly cruel and utterly lacking in compassion. Surely that goes without saying. Or do I have to spell everything out for you all the time? Sometimes I think you are a bit more intelligent than the average poster here. And sometimes I am disappointed with you.
My comment was on our clear and utter failure with regard to the Taliban. We were going in to bring freedom and enlightenment to that area of the world. And just look. Anyway, it is and always was complete and utter bollocks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CyberGuy wrote: |
| Now why this video depicts more cruel scene? Because there does not exist any "cruel scene to show" for the drone attacks. Only because you do not see 40 or 50 people crying and moaning while they are getting melted down by a Drone attack, that does not mean it did not happen. |
Abso-fucking-lutely. Double standards.
Dropping bombs on wedding parties is fine. Dismembering and orphaning small children with drone attacks is perfectly acceptable. Wiping out 17 year old girls with missiles is merely 'regrettable.' But whipping them is the height of barbarity.
There have been so many horrific incidents involving NATO and innocents in Afganistan, and they happen regularly. Why are videos of that carnage not widely distributed or discussed on these forums.
It's all bollocks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| CyberGuy wrote: |
| Now why this video depicts more cruel scene? Because there does not exist any "cruel scene to show" for the drone attacks. Only because you do not see 40 or 50 people crying and moaning while they are getting melted down by a Drone attack, that does not mean it did not happen. |
Abso-fucking-lutely. Double standards.
Dropping bombs on wedding parties is fine. Dismembering and orphaning small children with drone attacks is perfectly acceptable. Wiping out 17 year old girls with missiles is merely 'regrettable.' But whipping them is the height of barbarity.
There have been so many horrific incidents involving NATO and innocents in Afganistan, and they happen regularly. Why are videos of that carnage not widely distributed or discussed on these forums.
It's all bollocks. |
So NATO soldiers bomb 17 year old girls who refuse to marry them. Its called collateral damage and its awful and regrettable but its a part of war.
The way wars are fought these days is bollocks. NATO does everything it can to not harm innocents. They are hamstrung by the public opinion coming from their own people. Al queda knows this and uses it briliiantly to their advantage.
A few more attacks on the scale of 9-11 or greater and there wont be any more restraint. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CyberGuy
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Location: Daejeon, Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Beej wrote: |
For the record, drone attacks rule. |
Hmm, from the same arguments as yours, it implies that massacring the civilian men, innocent women and children is an act of "high morality. I see, according to that the 911 attacks must be pretty amusing, right?
Mind that, if burning down 80 to 100 people at once in each marriage ceremony in Afghanistan is a rule for you then we must expect more "funny" attacks on New York, specially at your roof top.
What? hailing the massacre of Afghans, Palestinians, Iraqis and Pakistani is the blessing of freedom and democarcy? then I guess more and more people from the east should take a bigger precautionary measure to avoid such "blessing of freedom from life" and should nuke people like you before they come to massacre them and rejoice over it.
Oh well, I won't ever support killing of civilians and will never rejoice like the low lives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
[.
And weren't we supposed to have gone into Afghanistan to liberate the place from the Taleban? We did a great job, huh? |
We did. This incident took place in PAKISTAN... where the TalIban are hiding out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
