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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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 Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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| Julius wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| Nov. 13., 1861 |
Well, I'd heard that the teaching of History in American schools is a disgrace but didn't really believe it until now. Or perhaps it's your mathematical skills that are lacking? 1861 is most certainly not "from the beginning of the country." |
I think you're misunderstanding the original writer of the article.
he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America 9or at least the majority of Americans from the beginning. I don't think you can deny this.
It was certainly true of the founding fathers..who did trust in God and were inspired by and instituted their christian values into the constitution.
So wether the majority of Americans are christian or not in times to come, they will still be blessed by Christian values indirectly via the constitution. Until they vote to change it.
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
I am not at all sure that the founding fathers were 100% Christian. And I am in Saudi Arabia right now. |
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sharkey
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| people who still believe in god make me laugh |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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| Julius wrote: |
| If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
I supported and defended the Constitution for over 20 years and retired from the US military. I think I'm a bit more familiar with the document than you appear to be. I'm also quite aware that the document came a few years after the beginning of the country.
By the way, I never swore "under God" for the oath of enlistment or re-enlistment. I affirmed them. What do you have to say about that? |
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furtakk
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:27 am Post subject: |
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitian nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of harmony between the two countries.
George Washington
Lighthouses are more useful than churches
Benjamin Franklin
Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how it has happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.
John Adams
It's funny how their public addresses aren't very reflective of their actual beliefs. Kinda like most politicians today... |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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[quote="Manner of Speaking"]
| Julius wrote: |
I think you're misunderstanding the original writer of the article.
he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America 9or at least the majority of Americans from the beginning. I don't think you can deny this.
It was certainly true of the founding fathers..who did trust in God and were inspired by and instituted their christian values into the constitution.
So wether the majority of Americans are christian or not in times to come, they will still be blessed by Christian values indirectly via the constitution. Until they vote to change it.
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
No, what's happening here is two things: 1) your failing to put his comments in context, hence your cherry-picking from the site, and 2) your attempting to put words into his mouth. If he felt that Christianity was the basis of the US polity from the beginning, then he wouldn't have said "From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters." He wanted to put "In God We Trust" on a coin because this "would put us under Divine protection which we have claimed." So obviously he felt that God wasn't (sufficiently) inserted into the national symbolism of the US.
Put his name on a coin and you get his blessing. God comes pretty cheap.  |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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[quote="Manner of Speaking"]
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
I think you're misunderstanding the original writer of the article.
he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America 9or at least the majority of Americans from the beginning. I don't think you can deny this.
It was certainly true of the founding fathers..who did trust in God and were inspired by and instituted their christian values into the constitution.
So wether the majority of Americans are christian or not in times to come, they will still be blessed by Christian values indirectly via the constitution. Until they vote to change it.
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
No, what's happening here is two things: 1) your failing to put his comments in context, hence your cherry-picking from the site, and 2) your attempting to put words into his mouth. If he felt that Christianity was the basis of the US polity from the beginning, then he wouldn't have said "From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters." He wanted to put "In God We Trust" on a coin because this "would put us under Divine protection which we have claimed." So obviously he felt that God wasn't (sufficiently) inserted into the national symbolism of the US.
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Huh?
You're confused.
You quoted me as below:
| Quote: |
| he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America |
etc.
At this point I was talking about the Original posted article. ie , the one posted by the OP. Hint: At the very beginning of the thread. Top of page 1.
I was not talking about the letter to the treasury. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| Nov. 13., 1861 |
Well, I'd heard that the teaching of History in American schools is a disgrace but didn't really believe it until now. Or perhaps it's your mathematical skills that are lacking? 1861 is most certainly not "from the beginning of the country." |
I think you're misunderstanding the original writer of the article.
he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America 9or at least the majority of Americans from the beginning. I don't think you can deny this.
It was certainly true of the founding fathers..who did trust in God and were inspired by and instituted their christian values into the constitution.
So wether the majority of Americans are christian or not in times to come, they will still be blessed by Christian values indirectly via the constitution. Until they vote to change it.
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
I am not at all sure that the founding fathers were 100% Christian. And I am in Saudi Arabia right now. |
Not to detract from the debate/discussion at hand, but: whoa, haven't seen you around these parts for quite some time. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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| Julius wrote: |
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
1) I find it interesting that 2 of the 3 countries which you mention here are as bad as they are at least in part due to religious fundamentalism.
2) Why those countries specifically? There are plenty of other far more pleasant non-Christian countries one could choose to live in. |
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weebil
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| sharkey wrote: |
| people who still believe in god make me laugh |
so... the majority of all people in the world? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| weebil wrote: |
| sharkey wrote: |
| people who still believe in god make me laugh |
so... the majority of all people in the world? |
Why is that so hard to believe? I honestly consider it a bit funny that the majority of people believe these things which they have no meaningful evidence for as well. I tend to be civil about it and only press when faced with absolute fanaticism, but I do find it kind of funny to be honest.
If the majority of people believed in bats were a super-intelligent master race who only seem like unintelligent animals because we can't comprehend their ways, I'd find that funny too, and at least we have reason to believe bats exist! |
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E_athlete
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| secularism for the win. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Religion is mental masturbation for the weak. All that exists is what's here around us and that which science also lets us percieve (ie radio waves etc.) We should focus on that as a race and wake the hell up and make here and what is around us work for us as best we can and look after it to have the best living conditions we can. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
2) Why those countries specifically? There are plenty of other far more pleasant non-Christian countries one could choose to live in. |
Yes! I've always wondered this too. Why not Norway or Sweden? |
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