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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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 Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Do you really think when mommie and daddie signed junior up for that U.S. unit, the notion of junior going to a war outside of the Hermit Kingdom even crossed their minds? Personally, I could care less!! I do however believe that if Korean soldiers are sent to the Middle East to fight and die, there will be a lot of empty rhetoric flying around the media.
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See, thats the deal-breaker right there.
The government had spent tons of time and money trying to bury the anti-American rhetoric of 2002. Korea negotiated with the US on sending huge amounts of economic aid to both Iraq and Afghanistan in exchange keeping Korean soldiers at home.
The problem is, KATUSAs are an integral part of USFK, it is part of the force structure thats been around since the Korean War.
If you think about this from a manpower point of view, if these soldiers are exempt from doing their duty, it goes against the integral part of the US-Korean alliance leaves these deployed units understaffed.
The US was almost ready to pack up and leave Korea back in 2004, if the government caves into public pressure on this, it could have dire consequence for the alliance.
A good example of this was back in 2003, several huge demonstrations occurred, including some where protesters actually broke into Yongsan itself and started fighting with soldiers and family members. Not to mention the molotov cocktail attacks on several bases- these were a huge force protection issues because it looked like the Korean government was actually encouraging protesters to do those things. In response, USFK was scaling back troop levels from 36,000 to 24,000- not alot.
Also, President Bush kept on reassuring the Korean government that they would keep the alliance strong. But at the same time, officials from the State Department and the Department of Defense were on fact-finding missions for new possible locations in both Indonesia and the Philippines (and some officials going as far as Australia) just in case the US decided to vacate Korea. Sure- the alliance would be there, but it would be similar to the alliance the US has with Taiwan, which is to respond only when attecked.
Admiral Mullen said that the situation in Afghanistan was precurious at best. He said that President Obama wanted all units and agencies to contribute to the war effort in any way they could. He said that in the coming weeks, as President Obama finishes his new strategy for the war effort, it might include contingents of troops from Korea to be deployed along side other units and stressed that the decision rests on how ready stateside units are for the next upsurge in troops that would come by next spring.
When asked if all personnel would be included in the proposed deployment (which could mean that many of you guys' concerns were being raised), he simply said that yes- there is nothing that could be said or done.
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| I wonder how the "Hello Kitty" paraphrenalia will hold up in the desert? |
It will either be stolen by the Taliban or turned yellow by sand erosion.
Again, the only thing I could say is if people don't like what I say, they could take what I wrote to a left-wing Civic group and start marching on Yongsan, demanding that all Koreans be removed from US army units. Or- they could contact a member of the National Assembly and let them know how you feel about this development |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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CentralCali- you got out as an E-6 while I am a GS-12 (please keep in mind that the highest GS rank is GS-15- and he works alongside General Sharp). So how could an E-6 (which is similar to only a GS-4) know more about what happens in the adminstrative workings onbase- and retired at that!
I met NCOs like you before, which I had to set straight because they thought they could outrank a civilian- boy! did I chew them a new a-hole!
I have some questions for you, rather simple ones-
- Were you at the meeting?
- Do you know the current OPTEMPO?
- Do you still have your security clearance (mine is TS)?
- Do you have access to G1, let alone J1?
- Do you still work onbase?
- Do you know the current administrative procedures?
I respect your knowledge of the military and I bet alot of posters also appreciate it- but there is no way you can second-guess a person with as high a rank as me. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:49 am Post subject: |
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GS-4? Yeah, right.  . Is there anything else you want to post that's easily disproven?
But according to you I'm not even American. I'm just some Korean spouting. So, why should I believe any of your other crap?
Last edited by CentralCali on Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
We met with him AFTER that meeting with the rank and file.
Those GS-11 and above (and O-5 and above in the officer ranks) knows whats coming down. They won't publish the official word until President Obama states his strategy publicly in the next couple of weeks. |
Isn't this information sensitive?
I mean it seems strange that an insider is leaking the latest executive decisions to daveseslcafe, before not only both presidents have made statements but before even the korean people have been informed?
Did you not consider selling this story to the media first? Probably tens of thousands $US for something like this 
Not that we're not grateful...but... A world exclooosive!... and you heard it on daves' first.  |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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I mean it seems strange that an insider is leaking the latest executive decisions to daveseslcafe, before not only both presidents have made statements but before even the korean people have been informed?
Did you not consider selling this story to the media first? Probably tens of thousands $US for something like this
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Yes, it is rather sensitive, but rumors about possible deployments have been flying around for years. This is the first confirmation, straight for the mouth of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that USFK is gearing toward deploying their troops to a hostile location, which hasn't been done since the Vietnam War.
There were about thirty of us in the room, the chances of someone leaking this to the press is very good. I am posting it here, on the Off-Topics section of Dave's because I was an ESL teacher, thus a member of this community. Like all others, I like to share what I know with the rest of the community. Besides, this is an anonymous forum where people could keep their identities secret- so the possibility of CID finding out who the person is, is almost nil.
Ok- CentralCali~
If you look at the bottom of the page of your chart, it says it was published in 2007.
I found a PDF that was published alittle later than that- http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/fmr/11a/11a_06_appendix_b.pdf
According to this, you would be equivalent to a GS-5. That would be the truth if you had the skills necessary for the position in that rank. However, if you lack certain skills or require additional training, you will start off at GS-4- I say this because a guy who was just hired recently was an Air Force Tech Sergeant (also an E-6). However, because he got out in 1988, he was forced to go TDY to Fort Monmouth for additional training and he was slotted for GS-4. But after 24 months, he is eligible for GS-5.
Now look closely at your chart, my rank (GS-13) would be equivalent to an O-5 (which would be Commander in the Navy or a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army or Air Force). On my chart, I would only be rated the same as a Major (O-4).
The point I am getting at is that because of my rank and my position as well as my security clearance, I am allotted to know many more things that happen. My position onbase takes me to many places, attend almost all high-level meetings and I get to meet a lot of officials. It is not done by choice but because it is part of my job.
You, on the other hand, have access to the base because you are retired. You have knowledge of what happens based on what you observe, not from the person who makes the policy and puts it in force.
A retiree arguing with a base official is like someone comparing apples to oranges, there really is no comparison.
Again, I have some questions-
- If you were a PAC clerk and know so much about Corps.-level strength reports, please enlighten us with your knowledge. I would really like to know how you know more than me?
- Also, you never answered my question.
How am I politically bias?
Against whom?
Please note that in almost every post, you have made a lot of personal attacks by making insults- does that make you a bigger man? To me, it just makes you sound unprofessional.
Also, remember the ToS, which forbids such attacks against other posters and if such attacks continue, I will report you.
If you are going to debate, be professional. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: ... |
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Hmm...
I do recall, in the aftermath of the 2002 World Cup APC tragedy, a soldier came on this board to give a very heartfelt explanation of his version of the events. In doing so, he got himself up to the ying-yang in trouble.
USFK, just like the Korean police, do monitor this board.
So....what are you doing?
You were in a high-level meeting that only 30 people attended and you're a former English teacher? How many former English teachers were present at this meeting? If you are, indeed, GS-12, then I'd say you've practically identified yourself.
Moreover, if this information is likely to be leaked to the press, then why are you leaking it to a board of English teachers? Wouldn't it make far more sense for you to leak it to the press?
I mean, if I had it on good that someone was going to try to assassinate Obama, this would be the last place I'd go to reveal my info.
So....what are you doing?
There's a KOTESOL conference going on. Why not slap together a PowerPoint presentation and tell people there? Then, this sensitive information might reach, um, Japan?
But really, why are you telling us about this anyway? What shall I do? Burn my KATUSA application?
Please keep us briefed on your career, cuz, after this violation, I think you'll be lucky to get a post-office job.
Practice good OpSec. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
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I mean it seems strange that an insider is leaking the latest executive decisions to daveseslcafe, before not only both presidents have made statements but before even the korean people have been informed?
Did you not consider selling this story to the media first? Probably tens of thousands $US for something like this
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Yes, it is rather sensitive, but rumors about possible deployments have been flying around for years. This is the first confirmation, straight for the mouth of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that USFK is gearing toward deploying their troops to a hostile location, which hasn't been done since the Vietnam War.
There were about thirty of us in the room, the chances of someone leaking this to the press is very good. I am posting it here, on the Off-Topics section of Dave's because I was an ESL teacher, thus a member of this community. Like all others, I like to share what I know with the rest of the community. Besides, this is an anonymous forum where people could keep their identities secret- so the possibility of CID finding out who the person is, is almost nil. |
I am not trying to argue with you here, but how many of those 30 people were formerly ESL teachers? So, I would definitely think that this thread puts your anonymity at risk. You do realize that these daveseslcafe threads come up on google searches, do you not? Now, I suppose odds are against any top army officials going to the trouble to determine who you are. Nonetheless, all it would take would be some scenario in which a Korean newspaper gets its information from this thread and an army official becoming annoyed with the information being leaked. Granted, this is unlikely to happen, but I wouldn't discount it from the realm of macro-probabilities.
Last edited by Konglishman on Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your concern- but this information has been around the rumor mill and many people already know what will be happening onbase anyway- especially within the officer corps. and
One thing I found during my time here is that there is a lack of transparency between what is known onbase and what is available to the surrounding community. I believe everyone has the right to know what is going on and to build a healthy discussion about it- especially since Korean soldiers assigned to American units are involved.
My philosophy is; why surprise people?
This is not OPSEC since it doesn't involve dates, units and direct locations that involve troop movements. If this information was involved, then yes, I would be violating OPSEC.
The first time this was proposed was back in 2005, when troops were needed in Iraq. But at that time, both the US and Korean governments both agreed that sending units directly from Korea was a bad idea because it could be seen as upsetting China. So what did the US do- the units designated to go to Iraq at the time were moved off the peninsula and then assigned in Iraq.
However, the situation now is a little more desperate and troops might be needed as soon as possible.
Plus, keep in mind that the US military is moving toward a more flexible unit system, with the creation of Brigade and Battalion Combat Teams, that could be moved from any place to any place within a designated period of time- again, this information is found widely on the internet also.
General Casey, Army Chief of Staff, stated earlier this year that all units army-wide could be effected if the situation in Afghanistan deteriorated.
Remember units from Italy, Germany, Japan and many other OCONUS locations are being tapped to serve tours in Afghanistan. Admiral Mullen, upon his arrival to Korea, had informed General Sharp that Korea has been added to the unit rotation- whether that will include all soldiers remains to be seen. But he did say that there would be no exceptions.
The point of this discussion is not to argue about what is written, but to find out what you think about the issue.
If you do have problems- there are political avenues a person could use to address their concerns. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
Also, remember the ToS, which forbids such attacks against other posters and if such attacks continue, I will report you.
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Go for it now. The easiest way to do that is to click on the ! icon on the upper right of your post. Don't forget to mention your "You must be Korean" remark.
And I agree with you Junior. You have admitted to posting "sensitive information." I am happily reporting this thread to the appropriate office of the US military. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| You have admitted to posting "sensitive information." I am happily reporting this thread to the appropriate office of the US military. |
lol!- Yeah, it is sensitive, but not exactly classified.
We were even talking about this while having drinks at the DHL, some people, like you guys, are against the situation. But being that it has come down from the top, there is little anyone could do.
About reporting me, it is easy-
The best people to report such violoations to is to CI (Counterintelligence). They handle all violations to Force Protection.
When you do make a report, make sure to write down what you saw and heard and to be sure to note;
~ The units being discussed
~ The location of the troop movements being discussed
~ The time mentioned as to when the proposed troop movenments were suppose to happen
~ The person's name and location
~ The manner in which in which it was discussed
~ What type of documents were involved
~ Who they were being passed on to
Did I forget anything?
You need these things to prove that OPSEC was compromised.
Once CI compiles this info, it gets put into a docket and given directly to General Sharp, who will determine what to do next.
I don't mind if you report me because I will have a sit-down with him next Thursday anyway and your purported report will give us something to talk about (those one-on-one meetings could get kinda' boring if we have nothing to talk about aside from who will bring the chips for the weekend poker match).
Now, CentralCali- the more you persist on your personal, anti-American attacks, yeah I wouldn't mind pressing that button as well as sending a PM to the MODs to report your abuse, which could have you banned. As you can read, I never said anything insulting about you or what you wrote- and I deserve the same courtesy, ok?
I have no problem with you participating in the discussion, but you can do it without making personal insults- it shows professionalism and dedication toward having a well-rounded discussion.
But for future reference, thank you for pointing that button out.
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USFK, just like the Korean police, do monitor this board.
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Now you know who has been tasked to do this- pleased to make your acquaintance  |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Again, go for it now. Why wait? And you're calling me anti-American? That's hilarious! |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Again, go for it now. Why wait? |
Because I like to see you squirm...just kidding |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
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| You have admitted to posting "sensitive information." I am happily reporting this thread to the appropriate office of the US military. |
lol!- Yeah, it is sensitive, but not exactly classified.
We were even talking about this while having drinks at the DHL, some people, like you guys, are against the situation. But being that it has come down from the top, there is little anyone could do.
About reporting me, it is easy-
The best people to report such violoations to is to CI (Counterintelligence). They handle all violations to Force Protection.
When you do make a report, make sure to write down what you saw and heard and to be sure to note;
~ The units being discussed
~ The location of the troop movements being discussed
~ The time mentioned as to when the proposed troop movenments were suppose to happen
~ The person's name and location
~ The manner in which in which it was discussed
~ What type of documents were involved
~ Who they were being passed on to
Did I forget anything?
You need these things to prove that OPSEC was compromised.
Once CI compiles this info, it gets put into a docket and given directly to General Sharp, who will determine what to do next.
I don't mind if you report me because I will have a sit-down with him next Thursday anyway and your purported report will give us something to talk about (those one-on-one meetings could get kinda' boring if we have nothing to talk about aside from who will bring the chips for the weekend poker match).
Now, CentralCali- the more you persist on your personal, anti-American attacks, yeah I wouldn't mind pressing that button as well as sending a PM to the MODs to report your abuse, which could have you banned. As you can read, I never said anything insulting about you or what you wrote- and I deserve the same courtesy, ok?
I have no problem with you participating in the discussion, but you can do it without making personal insults- it shows professionalism and dedication toward having a well-rounded discussion.
But for future reference, thank you for pointing that button out.
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USFK, just like the Korean police, do monitor this board.
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Now you know who has been tasked to do this- pleased to make your acquaintance |
The moderating team doesn't respond to the whims of particular users. Do you roger that? You are addressing a poster as if we respond to your personal requests. This is unacceptable on the part of a poster. |
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roadwork
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Goin' up the country
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Which poster? |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: |
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It has been reported that Obama will make a decision about the current military situation in the next couple of weeks.
However, it seems like local media outlets have already picked up on what was told to us officials so far;
Obama Hints at Rotating Troops in South Korea to Afghanistan
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/11/113_55867.html
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U.S. President Barack Obama hinted that American troops stationed in South Korea could be deployed to Afghanistan.
The remark was made Thursday when he spoke to thousands of U.S. troops here on the final day of his weeklong Asia tour. It came on the heels of the Oct. 22 comment by Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, that the Pentagon could temporarily deploy U.S. service members in Korea to the Middle East in coming years.
Mullen referred to the soon-to-be-implemented longer, family-accompanied tours by U.S. troops in South Korea as a base for the idea.
``Many of you served in Iraq � others among you served in Afghanistan,'' Obama told 1,500 U.S. forces at Osan Airbase in Gyeonggi Province. ``Others among you will be deployed yet again.''
Pundits say the comment by Obama can be construed as emphasizing ``strategic flexibility'' for U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) since the U.S. government is struggling to handle Afghan issues amid surging death tolls and withdrawals of non-U.S. troops from the terrorism-stricken Central Asian nation.
Strategic flexibility is aimed at changing the mission of American forces abroad from stationary ones focused on defending host nations to rapid deployment troops that can be swiftly dispatched to other parts of the world where the United States is in need.
Seoul and Washington already agreed on the scheme in 2006, but the plan has not been fully implemented amid concerns that it could weaken the Korea-U.S. combined forces against North Korea.
A high-ranking official at the ROK-U.S. Combined Forces Command confirmed the U.S. move.
``When the plan of longer, accompanied tours by U.S. troops here was initiated, the U.S. military was already considering the troop rotation scheme at the same time,'' the official told The Korea Times on condition of anonymity. ``Such a rotation is normal in other countries where U.S. troops are stationed, so South Korea should not be an exception as long as the tour normalization plan is settled in the coming years.''
Following approval from the Pentagon, the USFK, which has 28,500 troops in Korea, is going ahead with lengthening the tours of its service members here to up to three years and having them live with their family members.
USFK Commander General Walter Sharp said his command would have half of its 28,500 members serve three-year accompanied tours, similar to those served by soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in Japan and Europe for decades.
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I rest my case. |
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