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| Is this the plan of Obama and his communist buddies? |
| Yes and bring on the one world government! |
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42% |
[ 9 ] |
| Yes and Obama is Jimmy Carter's step son called Obamaflation |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| No...the economy is about to turn around. |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| No...keep printing money until it runs out, then we will have Obama money! |
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19% |
[ 4 ] |
| I don't care because Obama is my God. |
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23% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Wouldn't you say that Reaganomics led to last winter's crisis and were responsible for producing that situation?
The debt is only at 1947 levels; not good, but not necessarily disasterous. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Wouldn't you say that Reaganomics led to last winter's crisis and were responsible for producing that situation?
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How? |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Is Obama trying to destroy the economy?
Wouldn't you say that Reaganomics led to last winter's crisis and were responsible for producing that situation?
The debt is only at 1947 levels; not good, but not necessarily disasterous. |
Where are you getting this information? Having post WW2 debt levels is not good, you're right. However, they are travelling in different directions. Government debt was decreasing in 1947, while today it's increasing. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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What Obama is trying to do is return things to "normal". This because Obama is a JD with an "international relations" undergrad and has fully jack/sh$t understanding of the economy, this crisis and the proper response. He does what his Goldman shrills tell him to.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10302009/transcript1.html
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JAMES GALBRAITH: The overwhelming emphasis, in the administration's program, I think, has been to return things to a condition of normalcy, to use a 1920s word, that prevailed five and ten years ago. That is to say, we're back to a world in which Wall Street and the major banks are leading, and setting the path--
BILL MOYERS: To restore what was.
JAMES GALBRAITH: To restore what was--
BILL MOYERS: Instead of reform what is.
JAMES GALBRAITH: And I don't think what was can be restored.
BILL MOYERS: And you say that's the objective of the administration's policies? Geithner, Bernanke, Summers, the President himself?
JAMES GALBRAITH: To the extent that there's a defined objective, that's it, yes. I think in the immediate day-to-day work, they've largely been preoccupied with keeping the existing system from collapsing. And the government is powerful. It has substantially succeeded at that, but you really have to think about, do you want to have a financial sector dominated by a small number of very large institutions, very difficult to manage, practically impossible to regulate, and ruled by, essentially, the same people and the same culture that caused the crisis in the first place. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Where are you getting this information? Having post WW2 debt levels is not good, you're right. However, they are travelling in different directions. Government debt was decreasing in 1947, while today it's increasing. |
As a percentage of GDP or something...I don't remember where I saw it, maybe on Nate Silver? As for the rest, you're right, the debt is increasing right now, which is natural because we're in the middle (possibly the end of the middle?) of an economic crisis. As things ease off, the debt should start to come down. If the recovery solidifies, we'll see debt reduction policies put in place, maybe as soon as next year. It will help if we can disentangle ourselves from those two wars.
My worry is that Obama spent too much time reading about Lincoln and FDR and not enough time reading about Jackson. An up-dated version of the War on the BUS would gain him a considerable amount of political capital--and further stymie the opposition. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| As a percentage of GDP or something...I don't remember where I saw it, maybe on Nate Silver? As for the rest, you're right, the debt is increasing right now, which is natural because we're in the middle (possibly the end of the middle?) of an economic crisis. As things ease off, the debt should start to come down. |
Obama admin forecasting trillion dollar deficits for the next decade. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| As a percentage of GDP or something...I don't remember where I saw it, maybe on Nate Silver? As for the rest, you're right, the debt is increasing right now, which is natural because we're in the middle (possibly the end of the middle?) of an economic crisis. As things ease off, the debt should start to come down. |
Obama admin forecasting trillion dollar deficits for the next decade. |
Here's the graph.
Notice in the graph, even under the White House predictions, never does the deficit return to Bush's worst deficit years.
I think that's enough alone for fiscal conservatives to turn away from the man. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
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| When most Americans can start voting, perhaps this will be plausible. |
Fixed it for you. |
Until we start calling campaign contributions what they're called in most countries, bribes, our votes won't matter. Anybody we vote for gets bought off.
If Americans riot and go Damian "Football" Williams on the people bribing our representatives, then we might see some change we can believe in.  |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Where are you getting this information? Having post WW2 debt levels is not good, you're right. However, they are travelling in different directions. Government debt was decreasing in 1947, while today it's increasing. |
As a percentage of GDP or something...I don't remember where I saw it, maybe on Nate Silver? As for the rest, you're right, the debt is increasing right now, which is natural because we're in the middle (possibly the end of the middle?) of an economic crisis. As things ease off, the debt should start to come down. If the recovery solidifies, we'll see debt reduction policies put in place, maybe as soon as next year. It will help if we can disentangle ourselves from those two wars. |
Same old ignorance on here... THE DEBT DOESN'T COME DOWN. Under the Federal Reserve ponzi scheme system, it only increases. But you have absolutely zero understanding of fractional reserve banking, so you are unable to understand why. Allow me to sum it up for you (again): Money = Debt. The only way to decrease the debt is to reduce the money supply. It can't be done without destroying the economy.
Here's the debt level per year from 1950 on: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
Notice that the debt NEVER goes down - this is because our monetary system is debt based, a ponzi scheme, and mathematically doomed to failure.
Anyway, Obama has already guaranteed the death of the dollar in the short term with his bank bailouts, it is only a question of how much time they can buy (1 year? 2 years?) before they replace it with a new global currency (which they've been openly announcing recently). That money Obama handed to the banks (trillions of dollars) can never, and will never be paid back - it is currently being used to artificially prop up the stock market (since the illusion of "confidence" is the only economic factor those fraudsters can focus on at this point, since our real economy has been devastated). The banks are using the currency they create out of thin air to consolidate the economy into their own hands, and are raping us for all we're worth. America will never recover until these criminals are dealt with. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: US Economy |
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| Quote: |
Here's the graph.
Notice in the graph, even under the White House predictions, never does the deficit return to Bush's worst deficit years.
I think that's enough alone for fiscal conservatives to turn away from the man. |
Looking at that graph, the real economic decline, appears to have started just after 9/11, when the US responded with the war on Afghanistan & Iraq. Is there a figure on how many trillions $ the war has cost the US, to date? In an indirect way, the 9/11 attack on the WTC appears to have achieved its goal of crippling the US economy. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| How many people predicted a year ago that the US economy would grow 3+% in the third quarter this year? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| How many people predicted a year ago that the US economy would grow 3+% in the third quarter this year? |
Yeah, I could post a bunch of links pulling the data apart (actually, I've already done so) and exposing the assumptions (GDP isn't "reported" it is modeled and then revised) as nonsense. But you'd not read them and anyways would see them as deviations from the official view of Hope and Change.
So, to answer your question, ya-ta. Me. If you will think back. I argued to you that the stimulus was unneeded as unemployment would begin to slow in June/July and nominal growth registering in Q3 or Q4. But I'll man up. I was wrong. The economy is in very serious trouble with virtually every single analyst of any repute screaming that things are now as unstable as they were in the months before this crises began. Robuni wrote a completely freaked out Op-Ed in the FT last week. Virtually every country is digging a massive hole of debt and blowing the load on multiplier-less stimulus. The global economy is waiting for the next domino. Could be Eastern Europe, could be Switzerland (my bet -watch UBS-). Could be the COMEX. Could be a dollar crisis. Could be an oil shock. But it will be something. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| How many people predicted a year ago that the US economy would grow 3+% in the third quarter this year? |
Yeah, I could post a bunch of links pulling the data apart (actually, I've already done so) and exposing the assumptions (GDP isn't "reported" it is modeled and then revised) as nonsense. But you'd not read them and anyways would see them as deviations from the official view of Hope and Change. |
Mises' remark is vindicated. The actual official GDP growth is 2.2% |
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