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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Being open to other cultures is good, but not at the cost of America's dignity. |
Worst case scenario: Obama starts being viewed as a soft touch around the world.
Best case scenario: Foreign countries are humbled and touched by his genuine interest and diplomacy... and a new age of mutual co-operation and respect begins. |
I think both of those are fairly unlikely. I think all that happens as a result of this behavior is the dignity of the Office of the President of the United States is slightly lessened, and life otherwise goes on. |
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ubermenzch
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Location: bundang, south korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
I think both of those are fairly unlikely. I think all that happens as a result of this behavior is the dignity of the Office of the President of the United States is slightly lessened, and life otherwise goes on. |
The dignity of the Office of the President of the United States has most certainly been degraded these past few decades with unfortunate frequency. This is clearly not an example of such behaviour. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Our presidents have to be the bitch of the leaders of countries who lend us money or they might stop lending to us. I'm sure it was a shit sandwich for Bush to be boyfriend for a day to the Saudi king as shown in these photos http://prophetofdoom.net/pics/Islamic_Clubs_Taliban/George_W_Bush_Prince_Abdullah_kiss_hold_hands.jpg but our economy is a pyramid scheme that cannot function without these Arab and Asian leaders playing along. It's untelling what Hank Paulson had to do when he went there with hat in hand. I'd rather be spared pictures of that.  |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
Yeah, I bet he was walking around the hotel, bowing to the Japanese, and then walking around bowing to the PM, then you know...
Excellent thread. |
| Reggie wrote: |
| It's untelling what Hank Paulson had to do when he went there with hat in hand. I'd rather be spared pictures of that. |
Especially considering that all their women are kept under wraps and at home  |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| But they're not equal in dignity: the Emperor of Japan is a monarch and priest of ancient lineage, Obama's an elected partisan politician and head of state only in a corrupt sense of the idea. On some level we all know they're not equal in dignity and that's why it grates unreasonably on people to see Obama bow. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
This is a matter of state, however, between two heads of state.
Did the Japanese monarch return the bow/courtesy/expression of respect? |
Probably not. So what? Does bowing or not bowing change a single aspect of the current geopolitical/military relationship between the US and Japan. If Obama starts bowing are the Japanese all of the sudden not going to be scared crapless about a militarily advanced China? Japan will continue to rely on the US for defense and everybody in that room knows it. How does a cultural formality warrant such silly scrutiny? |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Remember Michelle Obama casually patting Britain's Queen Elizabeth on the back during their Buckingham Palace visit? |
I find that innparopriate. Just because you never had a monarchy and perhaps think them an outmoded relic, we have a history of having one and some of us think they did a lot for us on some fronts during our country's hostory ya patronising cow.
Anyway as to the Japan thing, I think Obama and his aides are clued up enough (a lot more than you lot) to know what is an what isn't appropriate in such situaltions lol.... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Personally, the whole thing strikes me as just an attempt to detract from what, if anything, Obama accomplished in Japan. Nixon and Ike bowed and nothing came of it. It seems to me the people who object are the people who are just a little bit too focused on their own machohood.
Right or wrong, Obama wants to keep troops in Okinawa. To start a visit with a gesture that may well create a positive negotiating atmosphere is not necessarily a stupid move, except in those bars where nationalistic pride is especially vulnerable to bruising. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Enlighten me here. Has Obama ever met the Queen and if he has did he bow or show other British signs of respect to her?
If he meets a corrupt tribal king in some dirt poor third world African country where folks chase each other around with machetes and little kids carry RPGs, will he bow to him in the name of multi-culturalism (the mantra that tells us that all cultures are equal).
Personally I think Obama is the first post-American president. I would love to have been a fly on the wall during the discussions about whether or not to apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Personally, the whole thing strikes me as just an attempt to detract from what, if anything, Obama accomplished in Japan. |
Compared to the $1 trillion deficit the guy is running this year, the bowing is really, really a slight issue for me. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Personally, the whole thing strikes me as just an attempt to detract from what, if anything, Obama accomplished in Japan. |
Compared to the $1 trillion deficit the guy is running this year, the bowing is really, really a slight issue for me. |
Bingo! He keeps making taxpayes bend over and take it. Whenever he's only bending himself over, it's not as big of a deal.  |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if many of the Conservatives (not saying most are, because I don't know, I haven't seen the polls regarding that) are thinking that America is the best country in the world, and the leader of that country should not bow to Japan. I hope some were not thinking along those lines, but I have met people who display such chauvinistic attitudes. Bowing in South Korea or in Japan is part of the culture. Obama means no harm.
Saudi Arabia's monarch and Japan's emperor are not enemies of the United States; on the contrary, they are allies. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| beck's wrote: |
| Personally I think Obama is the first post-American president. I would love to have been a fly on the wall during the discussions about whether or not to apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. |
You mean the discussions that didn't occur? |
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beck's
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Obama is a president who has been apologizing for America's so called past misdeeds all over the planet. If you don't think that discussions about apologizing for the atomic bomb blast were held you are very naive. |
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