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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| fortysixyou wrote: |
The question is "why?" and the answer is "money".
We (humans) are a cancer on this planet.
I'd give my life for a population-reducing cataclysm.
We'll continue raping this earth for money until that happens. |
You hit the nail on the head.
Almost every national economic entity in history has done stupid things to the earth.
Science and education have helped a lot to reverse or minimize the harm to our environment.
But to those who can't even survive poverty, science and eduation is merely nonsense.
I do blame wealthy Americans consume too much energy in the world who on the contrary ignored how poor Chinese miners are making a humble living by digging coals ...  |
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Jeonmunka
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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My house overlooks the western (Incheon) skyline. Last year, during August the sky over here was fine. Lots of sun and blue sky. I couldn't remember a gray day at that time.
Three days after the Olympics finished, the skyline changed to a thick gray and hasn't changed back since.
Can certainly point to China with that.
I wished I had taken photos to documented it. Was so surprised.
I should dig up the photo I have of my sitting on a Daebu-do beach (Incheon harbor) sitting on yellow sand. The photo was taken 30 years ago. Now, that same beach is basically black muddy sand. But for that can blame the development that Koreans undertook, making soil runoff, pouring concrete over everything without thinking about the future cleanup problem ...
However, when I see that filth is just thrown into the Yellow River and is then carried in the ocean washed down passed Incheon I wonder if it ain't mostly 'from China.' |
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UrbanStyle
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I hope they don't ever implement a carbon tax, its such bull. carbon dioxide does not cause global warming, its just a scheme to rob and more closely control the people on this planet 
The earths global cooling and warming cycles are due to the suns cycles, the same effects can be seen on other planets in the solar system.
fighting climate change is ridiculous, the climate is always changing. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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^We have created a stockpile of CO2 in the atmosphere that has nowhere to go. That has been proven. And it is effecting the temperature on the Earth. That has also been proven.
Believing that we are not affecting the climate for worse is even more ridiculous. |
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steveinincheon
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: in The Shadows of Gyeyangsan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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China currently has some of the worst pollution on Earth. However they are taking more long-term steps than most other countries in developing green technology. I forsee the day 30 years from now where the West buys its eco-technology from China. The problem is that China is doing nothing in the short term to stop mass-scale industrial pollution - and the clean up effort from the current pollution will be enormous.
The country that I think needs to do the most to implement pollution controls is not China but India. India will be the world's most populous country within 20 years, and they are growing at nearly the same rate that China has been. India's cities are already among the world's most polluted, and India is in much earlier stages of industrialization compared to CHina. India is currently in the process of removing many of its barriers to investment, and foreign investment is just really starting to take off there. India has also balked more at making a long-term commitment to clean technology than China has.
Either way there is little the West can do to stop this without India and CHina's support |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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China and India need an incentive to go green. And the biggest incentive would be to tax their carbon intensive exports.
A tax/tariff would also serve to more level the playing field for manufacturing. There is no point for the West to go green if India and China don't follow suit. Pollution doesn't have boarders, after all. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: |
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China vs India,
There is at least "some" hope for India because unlike China, India is a democracy. People can and sometimes do go out and protest. There are activists. There's also a healthy amount of Indian pride to motivate them.
The big obstacles there are corruption and an overbureaucratic system. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
China vs India,
There is at least "some" hope for India because unlike China, India is a democracy. People can and sometimes do go out and protest. There are activists. There's also a healthy amount of Indian pride to motivate them.
The big obstacles there are corruption and an overbureaucratic system. |
You have to see what works better, I don't think India will do better a job than China just because its more democratic.
Look, India will surpass China in tens of years to become the most populated country in the world. Birth control is human rights deprivation in China but life saving in a long run for the world, what Indian people do for YOUR kids? |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
China vs India,
There is at least "some" hope for India because unlike China, India is a democracy. People can and sometimes do go out and protest. There are activists. There's also a healthy amount of Indian pride to motivate them.
The big obstacles there are corruption and an overbureaucratic system. |
You have to see what works better, I don't think India will do better a job than China just because its more democratic.
Look, India will surpass China in tens of years to become the most populated country in the world. Birth control is human rights deprivation in China but life saving in a long run for the world, what Indian people do for YOUR kids? |
Everything we write here is pure speculation based on the idea that the two countries will change. But who says significant change will happen or soon enough? The U.S. and where I'm from, Canada have both recently said more or less, "Don't expect too much from us." in terms of change in environmental policy at the summit in Copenhagen. If the countries with the means don't want to change, why should we expect China and India to change? Maybe Europe can lead the way. They're much more progressive environmentally.
India needs to be managed better. As far as I know, they are not lacking food, yet there are people starving in some parts of India. Maybe they should first work on this problem before addressing population control. One thing at a time.
With regards to helping China and India, I am just wondering what the Chinese and Indians living abroad are doing to help their brothers & sisters besides wire transfers to their loved ones. Because Indians have a democratic society, the people there are free to create organizations to solve their problems and expat Indians could fund them. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
The big obstacles there are corruption and an overbureaucratic system. |
and obscene religious beliefs and practises |
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