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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| You think that this would result in less war. |
The primary focus is to actually start paying for war in an open and direct way.
The reason the gas tax approach is so attractive is I remember when middle class kids were exempt from war as long as they could stay in college. When the exemption ended, opposition to the war boomed. In other words, when people don't see a direct effect on their family they tend to ignore the policy, but when the war directly affects them, many begin to make other calculations in their decision-making.
On top of that, energy independence is an important goal and should be a priority for anyone interested in national security.
It's pretty tiresome that every suggestion to improve matters stimulates the knee-jerk anti-government crowd to immediately jump in with reasons why some idea won't work because of their distrust of government, but they never have any suggestions on how to achieve the goal. In the end, yet another decade goes by while the situation worsens. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| You want to increase taxes - that's realistically what gas taxes do - and slate all the revenue for war. You think that this would result in less war. You also believe, contrary to common sense and historical fact, that the government would voluntarily give up the extra revenue in peacetime. |
Yata loves anything that expands the size and power of government.
We do need to put in more restrictions on the power of government to wage wars. The requirement to declare war has not been enough of a deterrent.
We must ban all forms of conscription so that government must depend on volunteers to fight its wars. Only wars popular enough to draw recruits will be fought.
We must take away the power of government to borrow. Ever. They will have to raise the money honestly, and in the open, for all programs and wars, of course.
We must take away the power of government to print, regulate, issue or control money in any way. This will prevent fascist-socialists from using inflation to finance their programs and wars.
Finally, we must repeal all taxes on income and property and allow a Constitutionally limited 10% sales tax or consumption tax as a single tax to be shared by all levels of government, Federal, State and Local.
When they want to have a war they will have to cut back somewhere else. If it's worth the pain, they can have the war. If not, skip it.
And they still will have the option to raise more funds through voluntary donations and bake sales. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| It's pretty tiresome that every suggestion to improve matters stimulates the knee-jerk anti-government crowd to immediately jump in with reasons why some idea won't work because of their distrust of government, but they never have any suggestions on how to achieve the goal. In the end, yet another decade goes by while the situation worsens. |
The idea you've backed here is just plain bad. It will enlarge the budget for war, and result almost definitely in more irresponsible wars. Don't you think it would be smarter to reduce the budget for war? |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You want to increase taxes - that's realistically what gas taxes do - and slate all the revenue for war. You think that this would result in less war. You also believe, contrary to common sense and historical fact, that the government would voluntarily give up the extra revenue in peacetime. |
Yata loves anything that expands the size and power of government.
We do need to put in more restrictions on the power of government to wage wars. The requirement to declare war has not been enough of a deterrent.
We must ban all forms of conscription so that government must depend on volunteers to fight its wars. Only wars popular enough to draw recruits will be fought.
We must take away the power of government to borrow. Ever. They will have to raise the money honestly, and in the open, for all programs and wars, of course.
We must take away the power of government to print, regulate, issue or control money in any way. This will prevent fascist-socialists from using inflation to finance their programs and wars.
Finally, we must repeal all taxes on income and property and allow a Constitutionally limited 10% sales tax or consumption tax as a single tax to be shared by all levels of government, Federal, State and Local.
When they want to have a war they will have to cut back somewhere else. If it's worth the pain, they can have the war. If not, skip it.
And they still will have the option to raise more funds through voluntary donations and bake sales. |
Liberal with a capital L huh ?
What happens when there exists an invasion of US soil? What if we can't afford it through direct means. To exist means that we must put debt unto our children. What then friend?
What then ?
_+_+
Wes |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| wesharris wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You want to increase taxes - that's realistically what gas taxes do - and slate all the revenue for war. You think that this would result in less war. You also believe, contrary to common sense and historical fact, that the government would voluntarily give up the extra revenue in peacetime. |
Yata loves anything that expands the size and power of government.
We do need to put in more restrictions on the power of government to wage wars. The requirement to declare war has not been enough of a deterrent.
We must ban all forms of conscription so that government must depend on volunteers to fight its wars. Only wars popular enough to draw recruits will be fought.
We must take away the power of government to borrow. Ever. They will have to raise the money honestly, and in the open, for all programs and wars, of course.
We must take away the power of government to print, regulate, issue or control money in any way. This will prevent fascist-socialists from using inflation to finance their programs and wars.
Finally, we must repeal all taxes on income and property and allow a Constitutionally limited 10% sales tax or consumption tax as a single tax to be shared by all levels of government, Federal, State and Local.
When they want to have a war they will have to cut back somewhere else. If it's worth the pain, they can have the war. If not, skip it.
And they still will have the option to raise more funds through voluntary donations and bake sales. |
Liberal with a capital L huh ?
What happens when there exists an invasion of US soil? What if we can't afford it through direct means. To exist means that we must put debt unto our children. What then friend?
What then ?
_+_+
Wes |
This is a stupid question. If a foreign army showed up on US shores you would have money and troops pouring in from all directions. You wouldn't even need to tax the people or conscript an army. People would be falling over themselves to donate money and equipment to the cause. As well as a patriotic upsurge in people from all walks of volunteering for service. |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| wesharris wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You want to increase taxes - that's realistically what gas taxes do - and slate all the revenue for war. You think that this would result in less war. You also believe, contrary to common sense and historical fact, that the government would voluntarily give up the extra revenue in peacetime. |
Yata loves anything that expands the size and power of government.
We do need to put in more restrictions on the power of government to wage wars. The requirement to declare war has not been enough of a deterrent.
We must ban all forms of conscription so that government must depend on volunteers to fight its wars. Only wars popular enough to draw recruits will be fought.
We must take away the power of government to borrow. Ever. They will have to raise the money honestly, and in the open, for all programs and wars, of course.
We must take away the power of government to print, regulate, issue or control money in any way. This will prevent fascist-socialists from using inflation to finance their programs and wars.
Finally, we must repeal all taxes on income and property and allow a Constitutionally limited 10% sales tax or consumption tax as a single tax to be shared by all levels of government, Federal, State and Local.
When they want to have a war they will have to cut back somewhere else. If it's worth the pain, they can have the war. If not, skip it.
And they still will have the option to raise more funds through voluntary donations and bake sales. |
Liberal with a capital L huh ?
What happens when there exists an invasion of US soil? What if we can't afford it through direct means. To exist means that we must put debt unto our children. What then friend?
What then ?
_+_+
Wes |
This is a stupid question. If a foreign army showed up on US shores you would have money and troops pouring in from all directions. You wouldn't even need to tax the people or conscript an army. People would be falling over themselves to donate money and equipment to the cause. As well as a patriotic upsurge in people from all walks of volunteering for service. |
Again sir, money pouring in ? I doubt it, naturally people tend to keep to their own local groups if things like this happens. They won't make it here syndrome. So, it isn't stupid. It's actually a very smart question.
Now calling a question stupid, that's rather bombastic. Definitely not fantastic.
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Wes |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Again sir, money pouring in ? I doubt it, naturally people tend to keep to their own local groups if things like this happens. They won't make it here syndrome. So, it isn't stupid. It's actually a very smart question.
Now calling a question stupid, that's rather bombastic. Definitely not fantastic.
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Wes |
Grasping at straws here aren't you? People tend to rally around a common cause. If another sovereign state invaded the States, the response from all corners would be swift and crushing (at least in the current geo-political climate). If Iran landed an Army on Manhattan Island you would have people from LA to North Dakota to North Brighton lending there support. I see no reason to believe why individuals from inside the States and also her allies wouldn't rally behind the cause. They would have plenty to lose if the States were to fall. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| wesharris wrote: |
Liberal with a capital L huh ?
What happens when there exists an invasion of US soil? What if we can't afford it through direct means. To exist means that we must put debt unto our children. What then friend?
What then ?
_+_+
Wes |
Nobody is going to invade the US. Get real. If any country actually did try, they'd be crushed in an instant. There is no justification whatsoever for the ridiculous amount we spend on our military. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| wesharris wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| You want to increase taxes - that's realistically what gas taxes do - and slate all the revenue for war. You think that this would result in less war. You also believe, contrary to common sense and historical fact, that the government would voluntarily give up the extra revenue in peacetime. |
Yata loves anything that expands the size and power of government.
We do need to put in more restrictions on the power of government to wage wars. The requirement to declare war has not been enough of a deterrent.
We must ban all forms of conscription so that government must depend on volunteers to fight its wars. Only wars popular enough to draw recruits will be fought.
We must take away the power of government to borrow. Ever. They will have to raise the money honestly, and in the open, for all programs and wars, of course.
We must take away the power of government to print, regulate, issue or control money in any way. This will prevent fascist-socialists from using inflation to finance their programs and wars.
Finally, we must repeal all taxes on income and property and allow a Constitutionally limited 10% sales tax or consumption tax as a single tax to be shared by all levels of government, Federal, State and Local.
When they want to have a war they will have to cut back somewhere else. If it's worth the pain, they can have the war. If not, skip it.
And they still will have the option to raise more funds through voluntary donations and bake sales. |
Liberal with a capital L huh ?
What happens when there exists an invasion of US soil? What if we can't afford it through direct means. To exist means that we must put debt unto our children. What then friend?
What then ?
_+_+
Wes |
You'll note that I've left the government 10% of all consumption for its use. This should be ample to provide everything that any reasonable person could want a government to do. (Socialists and Fascist-socialists are not reasonable, so they don't count.)
Since it is quite difficult for anyone to mount a serious assault on the US, and given the size of the US in land mass, popultation and GNP, the Federal, State and Local governments should be able to fund a national defense, state National Guard units and local militias within that budget. It doesn't take 3% of annual US consumption to provide an adequate defense, with weapons systems, munitions, bases on US soil, trained military units and reserve units, and a national defense savings plan for the government. We do, of course, have to dismantle the US empire and bring our forces home. |
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