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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| All food contains manure. It's grown in soil! What do you think soil is? Manure is what helps food grow! |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| All food contains manure. It's grown in soil! What do you think soil is? Manure is what helps food grow! |
Not to mention the wonders of weasel coffee. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if they excrete or vomit up the beans. I've heard both. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Chicken crap is not natural food for cows. And what the meat and dairy industries tried to feed them before - ground-up organs and meat from dead cows - led to Mad Cow's disease.
Reportedly, they also unnaturally feed cow's meat to chickens.
Ordinary mortal humans shouldn't unnecessarily tamper with the natural diets of other living beings.
There is a higher arrangement that keeps nature in balence. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Ordinary mortal humans shouldn't unnecessarily tamper with the natural diets of other living beings.
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Self-depricating cultist nonsense.
| Rteacher wrote: |
There is a higher arrangement that keeps nature in balence. |
Probably a lie. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Is the food industry slowly killing us ...? |
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| mises wrote: |
That's the future. |
It sounds disgusting. They've already found the muscle tissue needs stretching just as real muscle tissue does. Next they'll find it needs stretching of a particular kind, that it needs to be next to fat cells, that the nutrient solution they feed it isn't quite right because it doesn't do the same job as corpuscles and blood, and who knows what else. In the end, they'll find the best way to get good meat is to raise pigs. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| As far as nature being sentient or not, life is always sentient (to varying degrees) while dead bodies and inorganic matter are not. |
This is an unproven article of faith. Why can't you just present the science without tainting it with your cult teachings?
| Rteacher wrote: |
| And the laws of karma are said to be extremely intricate. |
Not by anyone worth believing. Karma almost assuredly doesn't even exist.
| Rteacher wrote: |
It's also reasonable to expect that higher forms of life might get pissed off when we unnecessarily mess with nature (and maybe shower down uric acid rain ...  ) |
Prove higher forms of life than us exist and maybe this concern will be worth taking seriously. And I mean actual proof, not heresay. |
This is not a science board. People are entitled to have faith if they so choose. You (obviously) don't have to agree. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| As far as nature being sentient or not, life is always sentient (to varying degrees) while dead bodies and inorganic matter are not. |
This is an unproven article of faith. Why can't you just present the science without tainting it with your cult teachings?
| Rteacher wrote: |
| And the laws of karma are said to be extremely intricate. |
Not by anyone worth believing. Karma almost assuredly doesn't even exist.
| Rteacher wrote: |
| It's also reasonable to expect that higher forms of life might get pissed off when we unnecessarily mess with nature (and maybe shower down uric acid rain ... ) |
Prove higher forms of life than us exist and maybe this concern will be worth taking seriously. And I mean actual proof, not heresay. |
This is not a science board. People are entitled to have faith if they so choose. You (obviously) don't have to agree. |
Yes, they are entitled to have faith. And when they use that faith in discussion -- especially to support suggestions that we behave in certain ways -- I'm entitled to point out how invalid such argumentation is due to said faith being nothing more than unproven stories.
Rteacher can have faith in whatever he wants, it's no matter to me. If he's going to try to use that faith to make real-world claims, though, those claims aren't going to go quietly unquestioned. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Blind doubt ultimately is far worse than blind faith. Science in the broadest sense can - and should - be applied to understanding spirit as well as matter.
No scientist - irrespective of how highly regarded he may be by other materialists - has produced even a single grain of rice or any edible foodstuff in the laboratory - though they've had enough time to create things that widely contaminate the food supply/environment and effectively kill all kinds of lifeforms.
Can any human scientist claim to ever have within their power the means to create the basic ingredients needed to grow grains, fruits and vegetables ?
It's evident that someone - other than an ordinary human - has intelligently provided all that's needed in the way of sunshine, rainfall, organic matter, etc.
However, it seems that science is getting closer to understanding the spiritual nature of life and the illusory nature of death at least theoretically.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lanza/does-death-exist-new-theo_b_384515.html
Karma may be understood as subtle laws of action and reaction that apply to spirit-souls embodied in human form of life, and these laws determine subsequent births and deaths in various species.
Highly accomplished and respected medical doctors who have observed the "passing away" of many patients also know (at least intuitively) that the presence of a non-material soul is the difference between a living person and a dead body, and they see the need for more "soul research"...
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Lecture56.html
The Vedic conclusion (purportedly based on information from the original scientist) is that all forms of life - even "less important" ones like bugs and weeds - have a spirit-soul, and they cannot be killed unnecessarily (especially en masse) without suffering some karmic reaction. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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All the food we eat nowadays has been changed radically by human selection. This is basically science at work and is age old.
Norman Borlaug is a good modern example of a scientist increasing food yield in the third world through developing disease resistant crops with a high yield.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, they can radically change it - but they can't create any food from scratch.
Sometimes, killing of lower forms of life by humans is necessary, but when it's not necessary (apart from crass profit motives) I think that there will be a bad reaction to using harmful pesticides, etc. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Blind doubt ultimately is far worse than blind faith. |
Blind faith in one religion is blind doubt in other religions. So you're just as guilty of blind doubt as anyone else, you've just also got blind faith laid at your doorstep.
When you've got a single thread of tangible evidence, present it, because your attempts at being "rationally" convincing are utter failures.
Consumption of certain chemicals can harm us. That's basic chemistry, there's no "natural vengeance" involved. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I have never advocated blind faith, but it's a safer position than blind doubt in case all the scriptures and pure representatives are right about their being an unlimitedly powerful and wise supreme person.
Advanced spiritual realization occurs as one becomes liberated from the bodily concept of life, following the instructions of a spiritual master who is a liberated, realized soul (in line with the scriptures and saints of a particular tradition).
It requires a certain amount of preliminary faith and sincerity to begin a spiritual process, and as one continues to sincerely follow basic instructions one should experience progressive realization and direct perception of the true self.
Without liberation from the bodily conception, one is no better than an animal and remains in the conditioned state of material existence, hovering indefinitely on the speculative mental platform.
Animals are also sentimentally attached to their own bodies and bodily relations. Even birds have feelings - as illustrated by these photos that have reportedly made millions of people cry throughout the world ...
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/12-09/news3084.htm
It's unfathomable how much emotional suffering is inflicted on the families of the billions of chickens that are killed each year in the U.S. alone ... |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| I have never advocated blind faith ... |
Yes, you have.
| Rteacher wrote: |
| ... but it's a safer position than blind doubt in case all the scriptures and pure representatives are right about their being an unlimitedly powerful and wise supreme person. |
Well, you're practicing what you call blind doubt with regards to quite a few major religions, and many more minor ones. You're not very good at taking our own advice. In this case, though, that's a good thing, because your advice is terrible. Pascal's Wager is only accepted by those with deficient critical thinking skills, regardless of which religion it is applied to.
When you have tangible evidence of the spiritual world existing, maybe we'll have more to discuss regarding how that impacts things like the food industry. Until then, there really isn't much more to say. |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Ordinary mortal humans shouldn't unnecessarily tamper with the natural diets of other living beings.
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So, we should be hunter/gatherers? Do you honestly expect people to go out into the wilderness to pick enough berries to sustain their existence until the next outing? |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| As far as nature being sentient or not, life is always sentient (to varying degrees) while dead bodies and inorganic matter are not. |
This is an unproven article of faith. Why can't you just present the science without tainting it with your cult teachings?
| Rteacher wrote: |
| And the laws of karma are said to be extremely intricate. |
Not by anyone worth believing. Karma almost assuredly doesn't even exist.
| Rteacher wrote: |
| It's also reasonable to expect that higher forms of life might get pissed off when we unnecessarily mess with nature (and maybe shower down uric acid rain ... ) |
Prove higher forms of life than us exist and maybe this concern will be worth taking seriously. And I mean actual proof, not heresay. |
This is not a science board. People are entitled to have faith if they so choose. You (obviously) don't have to agree. |
If someone makes a scientific claim one would expect scientific backing of said claim. If someone says that modern food will kill everyone because the plants and animals are angry with us for changing their diet, I for one would like evidence of this.
BTW, I'm a wiccan, and I cast a fortune spell on the economy, so in a week, we should expect to see the economy in the same state it was in during the dot com boom. |
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