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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| donducky wrote: |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| The Chinese are bad for the world. Unlike the US, they won't even attempt to account for their actions. If you think the US does a terrible job as a superpower, wait until China comes along. |
On the contrary. The Chinese are good for the world, and have just done all of us a very big favor.
AGW is a totally bogus theory--heard of Climategate? In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
Cutting carbon emissions is a formula for sinking the world into an ever much worse economic slump than it's in now. The Chinese know this. They're smart, and they're doing the right thing.
Imagine: the "bastards thrown out," once and forever, and replaced by a pro-people party. It happened in China, in 1949, and the pro-people policies of an ever stronger, ever richer China are now beginning to benefit the entire world.
THANK YOU, CHINA! |
I'm torn on this one. It is good that China wrecked the talks, but horrendous that they will not clean up their own backyard (which just happens to be on my planet). |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeonmunka wrote: |
Remember that Britain and the US and Germany were allowed to industrialize - and suffered pollution in places equal to that of localized places in China - like that one in the photo near the bottom, the coal and metal smelter in Laisotang or somename - think about filthy Pittsburg 25-40 years ago, or the great coal fog of London in 1956.
China is only doing what indudtrialized nations already did. (Albeit on a larger and more rapid scale.) Now we are telling them they can't. |
The premise here is that China doesn't have access to new, modern technologies. China has some state-of-the-art infrastructure, and a highway system on par with the US'. This is part of whats powering its rise.
China doesn't have to choose coal, but it is doing so. Because its cheaper? Well, in the short-term, but the long-term costs of coal are significant (The coal industry generates a little more than $8 billion a year in economic benefits for the Appalachian region. But, they put the value of premature deaths attributable to the mining industry across the Appalachian coalfields at � by a most conservative estimate � $42 billion). The Chinese gov't is NOT short-sighted, so what is really going on here?
The Chinese are driven by energy security, not lowering carbon emissions. They want to be sure they can power their country, and coal is safer; its more easily available than alternatives. China has the third largest coal reserves (behind the United States and Russia). Better technology would be dependent upon strategic defense guarantees from the United States, in addition to the actual supply of such technologies. China wanted a strategic alliance with the United States, which the United States would not give.
I'm guessing the Chinese gov't is at least as concerned about emissions as the West. But they don't feel the same economic security, nor do they have any faith in 192-country protocols. They're much more likely to get things done on a bilateral or G-8, G-10 kind of level. So, the Chinese are hedging, and will probably bend to a protocol with the larger powers in a later conference. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
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We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
Thanks for posting the link again, Hope.
I hope those photos also remind you how poor most Chinese people are.
If you led a life like these people are, you wouldn't really care how more CO2 emission will make the earth warmer.
One the other hand, Please everybody notice that the carbon emission of the US is 19t/person, the figure of China is 4.1t/person, which is lower than the average level of the world 4.3t/person
Maybe not every Chinese people deserves a car as American people do ( considering how much they get scolded in this thread), but at least, I think all people need to eat and make living... |
They'll care soon enough, because if the Earth does get much warmer scientists (including Chinese scientists) predict there is going to be one hell of a water crisis in China. See, much of China is dependent on the Himalayan glaciers for their waters. When they melt, you'll have a whole lot of water.........and then China is in for one hell of a drought. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
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We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&tid=282&cid=10046
These two gentlemen (who are scientists and incidentally support AGW, so you should like them) are saying that a new ice age could happen much faster than that. (Paragraph 7) Perhaps within a decade (Paragraph  ) |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:39 am Post subject: |
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[quoteThey'll care soon enough, because if the Earth does get much warmer scientists (including Chinese scientists) predict there is going to be one hell of a water crisis in China. See, much of China is dependent on the Himalayan glaciers for their waters. When they melt, you'll have a whole lot of water.........and then China is in for one hell of a drought.[/quote]
This.
It is something that is overlooked everywhere. Our groundwater is being tapped like crazy. In China there will be nothing left as most of it is used in the manufacturing process. When they can't irrigate their food supply, all hell is going to break loose and CHina will have to import food en masse. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| It is something that is overlooked everywhere. Our groundwater is being tapped like crazy. In China there will be nothing left as most of it is used in the manufacturing process. When they can't irrigate their food supply, all hell is going to break loose and CHina will have to import food en masse. |
They'll build nuke plants and desalinate. That's the plan. Which is good because the PEER REVIEWED DATA tells us ocean levels will rise ONE HUNDRED MILES tomorrow and ergo China (and others) pulling out ocean water for human needs is good. |
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Marc Ravalomanana
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
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We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
No, ice ages last around 100,000 years. Interglacials last around 10,000. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| Marc Ravalomanana wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
|
We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
No, ice ages last around 100,000 years. Interglacials last around 10,000. |
Technically, we are in an ice age. What people usually mean when they refer to an "ice age" is a glacial period. We are currently in an interglacial period of an ice age. The last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. Previous to that, glacials were occurring (or peaking) about every 100,000 years. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Marc Ravalomanana wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
|
We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
No, ice ages last around 100,000 years. Interglacials last around 10,000. |
Technically, we are in an ice age. What people usually mean when they refer to an "ice age" is a glacial period. We are currently in an interglacial period of an ice age. The last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. Previous to that, glacials were occurring (or peaking) about every 100,000 years. |
So what are we supposed to be worried about again? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| caniff wrote: |
So what are we supposed to be worried about again? |
Either you or your grandchildren will find out sooner or later.
"Granny....why didn't you do anything to stop it!!"....etc. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| Junior wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
So what are we supposed to be worried about again? |
Either you or your grandchildren will find out sooner or later.
"Granny....why didn't you do anything to stop it!!"....etc. |
"Well, first off if you call me 'granny' again I'll slap your face off. Secondly, I cannot single-handedly control the sun. Now go outside and make a snow-fort or something." |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Marc Ravalomanana wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
|
We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
No, ice ages last around 100,000 years. Interglacials last around 10,000. |
Technically, we are in an ice age. What people usually mean when they refer to an "ice age" is a glacial period. We are currently in an interglacial period of an ice age. The last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. Previous to that, glacials were occurring (or peaking) about every 100,000 years. |
So what are we supposed to be worried about again? |
G L O B A L W A R M I N G. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| caniff wrote: |
| I cannot single-handedly control the sun. |
What you can control though, is your own emissions of hot air and obnoxious gasses. You don't appear to be doing a good job.
btw...The sun has nothing to do with the causes of GW.. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Hurrah for China! |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Marc Ravalomanana wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| donducky wrote: |
In fact, we're rapidly approaching a new ice age, and it's nothing to do with carbon emissions--nothing whatsoever.
|
We have an ice age about once every 100,000 years. Our last ice age was about 10,000 years ago. Sorry, duck, but we're not expecting another ice age for about another 90,000 years. |
No, ice ages last around 100,000 years. Interglacials last around 10,000. |
Technically, we are in an ice age. What people usually mean when they refer to an "ice age" is a glacial period. We are currently in an interglacial period of an ice age. The last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. Previous to that, glacials were occurring (or peaking) about every 100,000 years. |
So what are we supposed to be worried about again? |
G L O B A L W A R M I N G. |
In an I C E A G E ? |
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