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chickenpie
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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 Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| On Oct 29, 2007, bacasper wrote: |
| You could not fit a sliver of paper in between the ideologies of Dick Cheney and Barack Obama. |
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Yea, doesn't matter which yanks are in charge in the US, they are all wankers. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| chickenpie wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| On Oct 29, 2007, bacasper wrote: |
| You could not fit a sliver of paper in between the ideologies of Dick Cheney and Barack Obama. |
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Yea, doesn't matter which yanks are in charge in the US, they are all wankers. |
Must be painful to know that the richest, most powerful country in the history of the world is the USA.
Oh yeah, that's not going to chance in your lifetime. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| What is the USA? The land, it's people? Me? You? Like the nerd in the movie asked, would you rather be part of a civilization in its ascendency or during it's decline? Whichever you choose, you is still you. Nations mean less and less these days. We're all pawns in a game of corporations and global economics many say. Group identity is ultimately futile. It does feel good to be a part of a cheering crowd though. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| Visitorq, you set up a ridiculous strawman, you did not prove or disprove anything. Then you went off on a weird banking tangent. |
Honestly, it's very straightforward and easy to comprehend. Unfortunately you're just not informed enough to follow. Sorry to see that. I made no strawman. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| You really think the Hitler argument was comparing apples to apples? Genocide is such a ludicrous example. No sensible person anywhere is defending it. A better choice would be the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII, heck even using the a-bomb on the Japs, there at least you have a moral argument in place. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| You really think the Hitler argument was comparing apples to apples? Genocide is such a ludicrous example. No sensible person anywhere is defending it. A better choice would be the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII, heck even using the a-bomb on the Japs, there at least you have a moral argument in place. |
Whatever. It's still a very simple analogy (exercise in logic) that even a child could understand. If you don't wanna use genocide in particular, then go ahead and substitute it with Hitler's (or Stalin, or Mao, or whoever the hell you want) doing the same kinds of criminal, unconstitutional things that Bush and Cheney did, and Obama taking over and continuing it. It really is apples to apples. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have a very difficult time feeling sorry for the people that got waterboarded by the CIA. Torture that causes extreme physical pain or permanent damage definitely i have problems with.
Those people were part of an organization that would have me beheaded or have my throat cut if i was over there and got captured by them. Why should I feel any sort of pity for them? Lock them up and keep them locked up untill they believe in the rights that i feel that I am entitled to. And when they do believe in those rights, then release them. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| I have a very difficult time feeling sorry for the people that got waterboarded by the CIA. Torture that causes extreme physical pain or permanent damage definitely i have problems with. |
Waterboarding makes the person think they're about it die. It certainly has serious mental affects on the victim that may be permanent. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Must be painful to know that the richest, most powerful country in the history of the world is the USA.
Oh yeah, that's not going to chance in your lifetime. |
I would certainly expect China to become 'more powerful' than America within 30 years. Maybe also India. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Obama's deadline has come and gone, and Guantanamo remains open. In part this is the result of political opposition from Americans�including many Congressional Democrats�who understandably do not want terrorists in their backyards. ...
The Administration similarly has been backing away from its intention, announced in November, to try 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other enemy combatants in civilian court a few blocks from Ground Zero. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who at first endorsed the trials, has since reversed himself and urged the Administration to "do the right thing" and move the trials somewhere else, preferably to a military base. |
From the article. This, from a Conservative new organisation, backs-up my rationales. But instead of discussing, visitorq flips to extremes, introduces Hitler and says things like "It's still a very simple analogy... that even a child could understand". It's so boring. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Regardless of the policies in place when Obama entered office, and regardless of any political pressures upon him, it is his responsibility to do the right thing. He said he'd rather be a great one term president than a mediocre two term president. Well, having the courage to stand up to political pressure is a part of being a great president.
Maybe he got some vast intelligent briefing on enterting office like pkang suggests, but I have a hard time imagining what that briefing could contain that is both so vast yet so necessarily secret that it needs to be kept hidden from the American people even in the abstract. I think the idea that Obama is caving to political and internal pressure is the more likely answer, but frankly if that's true, I condemn him for it rather than defend him based upon it. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, Fox, but what if Obama went back in time and joined Mao in invading Tibet? what then? |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly Fox, I don't particularly want to morally defend the U.S.'s anti-terror tactics; Obama has the power and should stop many incorrect policies. But the thread is titled 'Cheney's Revenge', and it's somewhat appropriate; by normalizing extraordinary policies he has reduced Obama's propensity and options for ending them.
We should also realize Obama is only President because of certain factors and should be expected to make self-interested decisions when he has already attained the role of President. In this sense it is a failing of American politics. The justice system should be separate from the executive and should never have allowed certain policies. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
| What is the USA? The land, it's people? Me? You? Like the nerd in the movie asked, would you rather be part of a civilization in its ascendency or during it's decline? Whichever you choose, you is still you. Nations mean less and less these days. We're all pawns in a game of corporations and global economics many say. Group identity is ultimately futile. It does feel good to be a part of a cheering crowd though. |
Nations and nationality still mean quite a lot thank you. Have you ever spent any time in Asia, or basically anywhere that isn't the US or a commonwealth country? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
Certainly Fox, I don't particularly want to morally defend the U.S.'s anti-terror tactics; Obama has the power and should stop many incorrect policies. But the thread is titled 'Cheney's Revenge', and it's somewhat appropriate; by normalizing extraordinary policies he has reduced Obama's propensity and options for ending them.
We should also realize Obama is only President because of certain factors and should be expected to make self-interested decisions when he has already attained the role of President. In this sense it is a failing of American politics. The justice system should be separate from the executive and should never have allowed certain policies. |
You sound just like one of those talking head 'liberal' hacks on TV. You certainly DO want to morally defend Obama and the Democrat party, because that's exactly what you've done. You make lame ass excuses to downplay his responsibility as the current president, trying to shuffle the blame to the previous administration (whom, as far as I can tell nobody in this thread is defending).
Your agenda is totally transparent and obvious and your so-called "point" is non-existent. It's boring. |
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