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sulperman
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Curly, ask a friend what split shift means. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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So Pretorian you like the job, it suits you. But it sure not suit me.
As to the saving money by having no medical and pension is good. BS...
My first few contracts always had the no medical and pension. Was it saving me money NOT. I was always having to go to the doctor for Tonsillitis and every time getting 3 days of drugs (why the helll do they do this) at roughly 15,000 a pop/visit. So the in one month I would spend about 50,000 for the doctor and plus another 30000 for drugs. So I was spending 80,000 on a bad month to save 50,000. Wow good deal. Of course I had school say they would pay half the costs. But every time you go up to them. Whine, complain, why not see my friend doctor..... A example, once an older couple for one school I worked at the woman had an emergency. The school in the past said the nudge/wink system would be there - they would pay half of any bills. This woman had to have her gall bladder taken out aka major ass surgery and school missed and did the school want to pay - NOPE. In the end they gave her a token payment and kicked her out. And the best reason once again why medical is so important - Bill Kapoun.
Next thing your wrong on Pretorian - Pension. I will give you a deal. You Pay me 5 dollars and I will pay 5 dollars into an account once a month and when you leave Korea or when you turn 65 you will get ALL the money. Who would not take that deal. Okay - Now unless you Irish or Australian (whoops cancel the Aussi) only they really lose the money out. Pension gets you more money in the end. SO where is the savings?
Also sounds like you school might be having you work illegally. Is the first morning school on the Visa. If not that is illegal work your wonderul school is having you do. Also I think English teachers can not work legally at a Kindergarten/Pre-school. I could be wrong.
Also E-2 visa holders can NOT be independent contractors. It is illegal and is a way for the school to avoid paying taxes and other benefits.
Now I will not fault you Koreans have a different way of doing business. I myself would negotiate with a school to get what I want. Some people like split shifts, me I don't. Some people will accept no medical - me I used to0 but know I want it because I do not want that one day.... Pension well it is up for discussion.
Heck everything else sounds good but sometimes the most nicest boss in the whole wide world would not make up for a school that pays me crappy or is in the middle of nowhere.
Last edited by Skippy on Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretorian wrote: |
Haha, no.. if you look at my first post I was also trying to find out about the place 4 months ago  There are three couples here and three single guys. The one guy that just arrived recently has taught here for 3 years before.
The schools is quite far South so if you like to party a lot at downtown then you'd have to pay a 7000won taxi ride there. But if you are cheap, the bus also works (1000won) and takes 20 minutes. There is a subway in Gwangju, but it only runs east to west and doesn't help you if you stay in the schools area. |
NO PENSION
NO NATIONAL MEDICAL INSURANCE
SHARED HOUSING
INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR
To all of you who are reading this. I've put in some time in Korea. Contrary to what one of the Posters is saying, I do have a clue of what I'm talking about. I've seen the contracts, been offered a position, and was attempted to be deceived by this place.
I would say this is more like a shill account trying to church up a terrible place. It's probably about time to hire a new teacher. |
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Pretorian
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
So Pretorian you like the job, it suits you. But it sure not suit me.
As to the saving money by having no medical and pension is good. BS...
My first few contracts always had the no medical and pension. Was it saving me money NOT. I was always having to go to the doctor for Tonsillitis and every time getting 3 days of drugs (why the helll do they do this) at roughly 15,000 a pop/visit. So the in one month I would spend about 50,000 for the doctor and plus another 30000 for drugs. So I was spending 80,000 on a bad month to save 50,000. Wow good deal. Of course I had school say they would pay half the costs. But every time you go up to them. Whine, complain, why not see my friend doctor..... A example, once an older couple for one school I worked at the woman had an emergency. The school in the past said the nudge/wink system would be there - they would pay half of any bills. This woman had to have her gall bladder taken out aka major ass surgery and school missed and did the school want to pay - NOPE. In the end they gave her a token payment and kicked her out. And the best reason once again why medical is so important - Bill Kapoun.
Next thing your wrong on Pretorian - Pension. I will give you a deal. You Pay me 5 dollars and I will pay 5 dollars into an account once a month and when you leave Korea or when you turn 65 you will get ALL the money. Who would not take that deal. Okay - Now unless you Irish or Australian (whoops cancel the Aussi) only they really lose the money out. Pension gets you more money in the end. SO where is the savings?
Also sounds like you school might be having you work illegally. Is the first morning school on the Visa. If not that is illegal work your wonderul school is having you do. Also I think English teachers can not work legally at a Kindergarten/Pre-school. I could be wrong.
Also E-2 visa holders can NOT be independent contractors. It is illegal and is a way for the school to avoid paying taxes and other benefits.
Now I will not fault you Koreans have a different way of doing business. I myself would negotiate with a school to get what I want. Some people like split shifts, me I don't. Some people will accept no medical - me I used to0 but know I want it because I do not want that one day.... Pension well it is up for discussion.
Heck everything else sounds good but sometimes the most nicest boss in the whole wide world would not make up for a school that pays me crappy or is in the middle of nowhere. |
Good reply, I agree with almost everything you said.
Firstly, I started off with stating the facts about the school (no pension, medical etc), then I gave my opinion about the medical. Yes of course you make more more money with a pension at the end of the day.. personally I wish we had one but I'm not going to lose the job over it. Just like you gave your opinion about the medical scheme I think its important to be covered for "just in case". I got travel insurance from back home for 71,000won for a full year and that covers me anywhere I go in the world while here in Asia. So if I go to China.. I'll be covered. This cover is only for things that happen in a hospital. The National medical scheme contribution for the employee is 2.385%, so on a salary of 2.5mil you pay 59,600Won every month. When I went to the doctor with acute bronchitis (thank you yellow dust), I paid 15,000won for the doctor visit and 10,000won for the medicine. Please understand, I don't doubt that you paid a lot, I'm just talking from personal experience. Besides some headache pills this is all I've paid for medical bills so far. Also remember what I said.. if you really still want to be part of the medical scheme you can still pay for it yourself (pay a whopping 5% instead of 2.4%), come on, do what you want.
Next, our employer, Simon.. is co-owner of both buildings (the Kinder garden and Hogwan). The schools are right next to each other and share the similar name "Sewoon". I think it's ok.
Now about the Independent Contractor bit. This link explains what it means to be registered as an Independent Contractor.
http://www.k-labor.com/tiki-index.php?page=Korean+Labor+Law+for+E-2+Visa+Holders
It's very clear cut to me. No pension, no medical.. all which a company can do.. all which was explained to us from the first cellphone call/interview. Now before you start quoting the article to me about how someone as an independent contractor don't need to be paid a severance etc.. please note that all the other perks are in the contract. I'll list:
Severance package equal to 1 months salary.
10 days vacation (you get an additional 3 if you don't take sick leave).
Airfare too and out of Korea.
Relocation bonus.
We get taxed every month.
If you really want to prove to me that it is illegal to be an independent contractor then please show me official government papers from the net or something. I'm tired of reading peoples opinions (on another Daves thread) about this.
But Skippy thanks for your info. Personally I don't mind living 15-20minutes from downtown. When I was up in Seoul it took me sometimes longer to get to Itewon from closer areas. But not going to debate this 
Curly, go cry a river somewhere else. I can give all the names, email addys and facebook profiles of all the foreigners here to anyone who wants it (except you, lol). The school recruited new teachers about a month ago for later this year when contracts expire, so no, not shilling. |
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Pretorian
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Pretorian wrote: |
| Skippy wrote: |
So Pretorian you like the job, it suits you. But it sure not suit me.
As to the saving money by having no medical and pension is good. BS...
My first few contracts always had the no medical and pension. Was it saving me money NOT. I was always having to go to the doctor for Tonsillitis and every time getting 3 days of drugs (why the helll do they do this) at roughly 15,000 a pop/visit. So the in one month I would spend about 50,000 for the doctor and plus another 30000 for drugs. So I was spending 80,000 on a bad month to save 50,000. Wow good deal. Of course I had school say they would pay half the costs. But every time you go up to them. Whine, complain, why not see my friend doctor..... A example, once an older couple for one school I worked at the woman had an emergency. The school in the past said the nudge/wink system would be there - they would pay half of any bills. This woman had to have her gall bladder taken out aka major ass surgery and school missed and did the school want to pay - NOPE. In the end they gave her a token payment and kicked her out. And the best reason once again why medical is so important - Bill Kapoun.
Next thing your wrong on Pretorian - Pension. I will give you a deal. You Pay me 5 dollars and I will pay 5 dollars into an account once a month and when you leave Korea or when you turn 65 you will get ALL the money. Who would not take that deal. Okay - Now unless you Irish or Australian (whoops cancel the Aussi) only they really lose the money out. Pension gets you more money in the end. SO where is the savings?
Also sounds like you school might be having you work illegally. Is the first morning school on the Visa. If not that is illegal work your wonderul school is having you do. Also I think English teachers can not work legally at a Kindergarten/Pre-school. I could be wrong.
Also E-2 visa holders can NOT be independent contractors. It is illegal and is a way for the school to avoid paying taxes and other benefits.
Now I will not fault you Koreans have a different way of doing business. I myself would negotiate with a school to get what I want. Some people like split shifts, me I don't. Some people will accept no medical - me I used to0 but know I want it because I do not want that one day.... Pension well it is up for discussion.
Heck everything else sounds good but sometimes the most nicest boss in the whole wide world would not make up for a school that pays me crappy or is in the middle of nowhere. |
Good reply, I agree with almost everything you said.
Firstly, I started off with stating the facts about the school (no pension, medical etc), then I gave my opinion about the medical. Yes of course you make more more money with a pension at the end of the day.. personally I wish we had one but I'm not going to lose the job over it. Just like you gave your opinion about the medical scheme I think its important to be covered for "just in case". I got travel insurance from back home for 71,000won for a full year and that covers me anywhere I go in the world while here in Asia. So if I go to China.. I'll be covered. This cover is only for things that happen in a hospital. The National medical scheme contribution for the employee is 2.385%, so on a salary of 2.5mil you pay 59,600Won every month. When I went to the doctor with acute bronchitis (thank you yellow dust), I paid 15,000won for the doctor visit and 10,000won for the medicine. Please understand, I don't doubt that you paid a lot, I'm just talking from personal experience. Besides some headache pills this is all I've paid for medical bills so far. Also remember what I said.. if you really still want to be part of the medical scheme you can still pay for it yourself (pay a whopping 5% instead of 2.4%), come on, do what you want.
Next, our employer, Simon.. is co-owner of both buildings (the Kinder garden and Hogwan). The schools are right next to each other and share the similar name "Sewoon". I think it's ok.
Now about the Independent Contractor bit. This link explains what it means to be registered as an Independent Contractor.
http://www.k-labor.com/tiki-index.php?page=Korean+Labor+Law+for+E-2+Visa+Holders
It's very clear cut to me. No pension, no medical.. all which a company can do.. all which was explained to us from the first cellphone call/interview. Now before you start quoting the article to me about how someone as an independent contractor don't need to be paid a severance etc.. please note that all the other perks are in the contract. I'll list:
Severance package equal to 1 months salary.
10 days vacation (you get an additional 3 if you don't take sick leave).
Airfare too and out of Korea.
Relocation bonus.
We get taxed every month.
If you really want to prove to me that it is illegal to be an independent contractor then please show me official government papers from the net or something. I'm tired of reading peoples opinions (on another Daves thread) about this.
But Skippy thanks for your info. Personally I don't mind living 15-20minutes from downtown. When I was up in Seoul it took me sometimes longer to get to Itewon from closer areas. But not going to debate this
Curly, go cry a river somewhere else. I can give all the names, email addys and facebook profiles of all the foreigners here to anyone who wants it (except you, lol). The school recruited new teachers about a month ago for later this year when contracts expire, so no, not shilling. |
If both schools are listed on your visa/ARC, then it's legal to work at both schools.
You employer sponsors your E-2 Visa, that means you are not an independent contractor.
I know someone who worked at this school, they got shafted.
Years ago, I checked into a job at this school, there was a lot of deception.
I'm just throwing in my opinion/facts, the same as you are.
Believe me, I'm not crying a river. I understand the laws and customs in Korea as well as you. I've been in Korea a long time. I'm on an F2 Visa. My wife and I own 2 Foreign Language Schools. Both schools have been open for about 9 years, doing very well. Trust me, I'm in a position where I don't need to talk to any of the foreigners at your school or apply for a job there.
I didn't come on here to bash your job. I know what happened to a guy who once worked there and I am aware of its past practices.
Now, all that being said, this may now be the utopia of jobs. If your happy, good for you.
Peace
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Pretorian
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Fair enough Curly.
I mentioned in my first response about another blog with a couple that worked here long ago who got shafted. It was when I tried to leave a comment on their blog about how things are different at the school, when she disallowed my comment and used the information to anonymously post her own comment (immediately after) about how horrible the school is.
It's actions like this, coupled with "I knew someone" or, "a few years ago" that really screws up people chances of coming over to Korea. I'm actually glad you didn't PM me as I asked you to do on (Post date) Thu Feb 18, 2010 in this thread.
But yeah, let's move on Hope your businesses keep doing well |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Pretorian wrote: |
Fair enough Curly.
I mentioned in my first response about another blog with a couple that worked here long ago who got shafted. It was when I tried to leave a comment on their blog about how things are different at the school, when she disallowed my comment and used the information to anonymously post her own comment (immediately after) about how horrible the school is.
It's actions like this, coupled with "I knew someone" or, "a few years ago" that really screws up people chances of coming over to Korea. I'm actually glad you didn't PM me as I asked you to do on (Post date) Thu Feb 18, 2010 in this thread.
But yeah, let's move on Hope your businesses keep doing well |
Yep! Things can change.
Again, PEACE to you  |
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maeve2121
Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Pretorian- according to this thread you really like seewon! But according to your blog 'the good, the bad, the ugly' post you really didn't like it!
Please tell me more info about it! Thanks! |
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MoneyMike
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've got some friends who work at that school currently. They work hard, but they're always paid on time, and are generally treated pretty well. To any extent that they've been frustrated with things, it more because of a lack of communication than any kind of deception. (kind of a common problem in Korea at times)
Also, the blog talking about the school is not true. Like I said, the people I know there are pretty happy with the job. All the normal frustrations apply (working with young children and all) but I think you could do a lot worse.
Oh, and if anyone was concerned, none of my friends live in shared housing unless they're a couple who wanted it originally. |
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Pretorian
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry about that maeve2121, I completely forgot to update Daves after leaving the Hogwan.
Things that I posted in here are still mostly true but my impressions have changed. For example you still work as an independent contractor so you don't pay pension nor medical. You will work like a beast but you also get paid much more than the average hogwan and you'll get paid on time every month.
At the end of the day it's just another hogwan that tries to get the most out of you and you won't want to stay there longer than a year. Same thing happened with us because we started looking into joining EPIK. When we told our bosses 5 months before the end of our contract that we were planning to join EPIK they were fine with that and gave us reference letters.
Needless to say they promised we wouldn't lose our severance bonus several times but unfortunately we didn't get it in writing. So right at the end we were forced to lose our severance bonus so that we could get a release letter to leave 3 weeks earlier to join Epik orientation (which they knew about).
We were really pissed of and sad about this because even though we worked really hard they screwed us over in the end.
If you'd like to know more about anything then send me an email/message and I'll be able to explain better |
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Pretorian
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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So MoneyMike are you saying that my girlfriend and I didn't lose our severance, partial airfare and 5 of our 13 days vacation?
MoneyMike is right about the mood though, it's not all bad, I've made that very clear. It's just that they didn't do what they promised and what was in the contract. |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretorian wrote: |
So MoneyMike are you saying that my girlfriend and I didn't lose our severance, partial airfare and 5 of our 13 days vacation?
MoneyMike is right about the mood though, it's not all bad, I've made that very clear. It's just that they didn't do what they promised and what was in the contract. |
NO PENSION
NO NATIONAL MEDICAL
NO SEVERANCE
PARTIAL AIRFARE
5 OF 13 DAYS VACATION
BROKEN PROMISES
BROKEN CONTRACT
SIMON
Yes, I've seen their contract. I interviewed for a job their, many moons ago. I personally know someone who worked their. Yes, I'm happy that I passed up their job offer.
Look back at the words in CAPS.
Rinse.
Repeat. |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| MoneyMike wrote: |
I've got some friends who work at that school currently. They work hard, but they're always paid on time, and are generally treated pretty well. To any extent that they've been frustrated with things, it more because of a lack of communication than any kind of deception. (kind of a common problem in Korea at times)
Also, the blog talking about the school is not true. Like I said, the people I know there are pretty happy with the job. All the normal frustrations apply (working with young children and all) but I think you could do a lot worse.
Oh, and if anyone was concerned, none of my friends live in shared housing unless they're a couple who wanted it originally. |
NO PENSION
NO NATIONAL MEDICAL
NO SEVERANCE
PARTIAL AIRFARE
5 OF 13 DAYS VACATION
BROKEN PROMISES
BROKEN CONTRACT
SIMON
Yep! just lack of communication... no deception involved here |
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Pretorian
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Curly I will be the first to admit that I was wrong about the school. I really tried to defend them because despite the hard work they weren't as bad as some other hogwans.
I'm South African so I don't pay Pension anyways. I was also not so bothered about the medical because I thought it was more of a con than a pro. BUT, after being lied to and not getting what was promised I wouldn't recommend others to work there... UNLESS they want to get their "foot in the door" to Korea and they are prepared to not get whats owed to them.
PS. Simon was always good to us and tried to make things work, but it was the big boss (the Korean one) who has the final decision and was the one that hung us out to dry.
[Others might have different opinions but that is ours] |
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