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UknowsI
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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 Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Unions and industry owners have to make a balance. Either one getting too much power will damage the greater good. Let's just look at the extreme cases. If industry owners have absolute power, the society will practically be divided into slaves and rulers. If the unions get too much power it can become virtually impossible to fire employees while the wages grow disproportionally with the value added. This can have similar consequences as communism, since the connection between your performance and your pay-check is weakened.
This is of course a little simplified, since there are more factors than simply owners and unions, but it points out that a balance is needed. |
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reactionary
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: korreia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| I'm kinda waiting for Steelrails to chime in with some Civil War yarns. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Union support was key in DE's Race to the Top Victory
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| Here in Delaware, teachers unions have joined forces with business executives, philanthropists and politicians in a reform movement that has been building for years. Collaboration, participants say, is not a matter of political convenience. Innovation, they vow, will not be sacrificed. |
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Persistently ineffective teachers, with or without tenure, will be at greater risk of losing their jobs. Highly effective teachers will be eligible for bonuses of up to $5,000 to transfer to high-needs schools and up to $10,000 if they stay in such schools and continue to excel. The state will also pressure low-performing schools to raise their game or face major shakeups. A last resort, officials say, following federal policy, could be removal of the principal and at least half the teachers. |
Before such a policy would have been rejected by any teacher's union. And while the article notes that Race to the Top proposals were killed if they weren't backed by unions, it also says that embracing the unions' ideas were not a path to success either.
And if DE becomes a success story, I wouldn't be too surprised if more teachers unions follow its path. |
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Gibberish
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| No, you know, the other one, where he's a single Dad and works in some mill or something. I forget the name. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry, don't have any. All of my experiences with unions - including when i was a Shop Steward, were bad. |
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Dude Ranch
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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um first day of work in a factory the union guy comes up to me and tells me to stop working so hard. It would make the others look bad and make it seem like they were not working hard enough. How is that for productivity?
good for me I guess, I didn't have to do as much work. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude Ranch wrote: |
um first day of work in a factory the union guy comes up to me and tells me to stop working so hard. It would make the others look bad and make it seem like they were not working hard enough. How is that for productivity?
good for me I guess, I didn't have to do as much work. |
He's right. As employees get older and years of standing on concrete and repetitive tasks has worked their toll, young bucks like you are a threat to them. I had the same experience every place I worked. It wasn't until I strained one of my shoulders from working too hard that I realized what the different guys had told me over the years (only one of those jobs was unioned).
Keep the pace, don't make older, more experienced, but necessarily slower workers stand out. Manufacturing is a hard life in the long term. I'm glad I won't be going back... but, then again, I've said that at least once before...  |
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kiknkorea
Joined: 16 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| reactionary wrote: |
| I'm kinda waiting for Steelrails to chime in with some Civil War yarns. |
| Gibberish wrote: |
| No, you know, the other one, where he's a single Dad and works in some mill or something. I forget the name. |
I think you're referring to F.I.S.T. |
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davai!
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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I made 35K in 10 weeks.
I got 1 year of health insurance out of that as well.
That was good.
The job was pretty stressful, though. |
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Jane
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| ; applying a capitalist idea like labor unionization to a non-capitalist environment like public sector work seems like a recipie for disaster. |
Social labour isn't a capitalist idea, in fact unions threaten the very ideal of capitalism, that is, maximizing shareholders equity. Unions ultimately interfere with profit margins.
A past poster remarked that unions affect the economy negatively by making the economy less efficient as wages must be higher and benefits must be offered. Lest we forget that the economy is made up of people! Neo-liberal economists over the past half-century have led us to believe that the economy is a separate entity, but it's not. We are the economy. Unions ensure that the economy, that is us, remains a sustainable part of the entire system.
It has been commonly argued that unions are the cause of jobs being off-shored (manufacturing and production jobs, mainly). But the case is, western gov'ts are the culpable parties having imposed taxes and regulations on industrial outfits making factory business unprofitable in advanced nations. Unions cannot be held accountable for that. In fact, we should be seeing unions or cooperative-type models showing up in developing nations over the next few decades as they too, will demand the security and protection that unions afford.
Remember that there is an agency problem that exists between employer and employee. Both have conflicting interests, and unions are one way that help protect the weaker of the two parties, that is, the employee. |
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