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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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 Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Where have you been for the last ten years, that you didn't know that PETA were a completely discredited, fringe loons group? |
Even if that's true, I don't think they're dispensible (my opinion). They've been around for more than 25 years and have been supported by many respectable artists such as Paul McCartney, Bill Maher, and dozens more. They just need to be held responsible for their wrongs and restructured. As I said, Ingrid Newkirck should step down as leader since PETA is more than what she is and there are many kind and ethical people within the group.
Thinking about it more, what Penn did with the leather biker's gear and heaping plates of meat was really dirty. Do you think if he did a show on abortion he would show a table of aborted fetuses? |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Where have you been for the last ten years, that you didn't know that PETA were a completely discredited, fringe loons group? |
Even if that's true, I don't think they're dispensible (my opinion). They've been around for more than 25 years and have been supported by many respectable artists such as Paul McCartney, Bill Maher, and dozens more. They just need to be held responsible for their wrongs and restructured. As I said, Ingrid Newkirck should step down as leader since PETA is more than what she is and there are many kind and ethical people within the group.
Thinking about it more, what Penn did with the leather biker's gear and heaping plates of meat was really dirty. Do you think if he did a show on abortion he would show a table of aborted fetuses? |
Many groups are co-opted by looneys and thus ruined. Greenpeace is the number one shining example.
Your comparison of meat to aborted fetuses is beyond stupid. People don't eat fetuses. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Where have you been for the last ten years, that you didn't know that PETA were a completely discredited, fringe loons group? |
Even if that's true, I don't think they're dispensible (my opinion). They've been around for more than 25 years and have been supported by many respectable artists such as Paul McCartney, Bill Maher, and dozens more. They just need to be held responsible for their wrongs and restructured. As I said, Ingrid Newkirck should step down as leader since PETA is more than what she is and there are many kind and ethical people within the group.
Thinking about it more, what Penn did with the leather biker's gear and heaping plates of meat was really dirty. Do you think if he did a show on abortion he would show a table of aborted fetuses? |
Many groups are co-opted by looneys and thus ruined. Greenpeace is the number one shining example.
Your comparison of meat to aborted fetuses is beyond stupid. People don't eat fetuses. |
Word.
Simple fact of the matter is that PETA are a lunatic fringe group which has vocally supported terrorism, has given money to convicted terrorists, has and had members who have participated in terrorist activity, kills way more animals in their shelter per percentage than the local government run shelter, are hypocritical about their usage of medicine developed using animal testing, and so on, and so on. For every good thing PETA might have achieved, they've more than nullified it with stupidity (see the above and their horrendously offensive campaigns (holocaust on your plate, etc).
Dev, your points about replacing Newkirk with anyone else are completely unfounded. The agenda propagated by PETA would mean that they would have to completely fold and start again with new people - otherwise there would still be idiots who think that banning guide dogs for the blind is a good idea. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Where have you been for the last ten years, that you didn't know that PETA were a completely discredited, fringe loons group? |
Even if that's true, I don't think they're dispensible (my opinion). They've been around for more than 25 years and have been supported by many respectable artists such as Paul McCartney, Bill Maher, and dozens more. They just need to be held responsible for their wrongs and restructured. As I said, Ingrid Newkirck should step down as leader since PETA is more than what she is and there are many kind and ethical people within the group.
Thinking about it more, what Penn did with the leather biker's gear and heaping plates of meat was really dirty. Do you think if he did a show on abortion he would show a table of aborted fetuses? |
Many groups are co-opted by looneys and thus ruined. Greenpeace is the number one shining example.
Your comparison of meat to aborted fetuses is beyond stupid. People don't eat fetuses. |
People don't eat fetuses. True. But the point I was making ws how offensive (and in bad taste) Penn's gag was with the leather gear and heaping plates of meat. I'm sure he offended and lost the audience he was trying to preach to, namely animal rights people. Instead of trying to win some over to his side with logic, he probably further polarized them. Good job Penn! 
That style of "joke" is in such bad taste that I wouldn't put it past him to do a pro-abortion show and come out with bloody medical gloves swinging a real dead fetus. Then instead of fighting anti-abortionists with sound arguments, he can offend them too and further stengthen their resolve to be anti-abortionists. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, in addition to Reznor, there are dozens of other celebrities supprting PETA. Too many for me to type so check this link.
http://www.looktothestars.org/charity/15-peta |
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Depths of My Soul
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: In The Sun
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
Many groups are co-opted by looneys and thus ruined. Greenpeace is the number one shining example.
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I beg to differ. I'd say Tony Blair and the Labour Party.  |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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That perhaps says more about the celebrities than it does PETA.
Celebrities lend their wealth and visibility to a lot of organizations, many of which are quite controversial.
And Ted Nugent is a fine person to interview regarding the ethics of killing animals. The man is a paradigm of virtue in ethically harvesting game. He's a bit... enthusiastic, but he's had an interesting life 
And my statement about Reznor was less about the man (a fine artist) than the stupidity of taking interest in an organization based on the popularity of their proponents. Who cares if Reznor supports killing animals en mass and assaulting people (and organizations) for disagreeing with you?
Maybe he's had a (re)lapse of judgment?  |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate.  |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate. |
Haha, what are you talking about? The mods should fact check every single statement and quip, every person posts? You are deluded and deserve to be "bullied". Maybe what you perceive as bullying is actually just people holding up what you post to some scrutiny.
If you feel there are factual errors here, why don't you point them out, instead of wasting everyones time? |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate. |
Haha, what are you talking about? The mods should fact check every single statement and quip, every person posts? You are deluded and deserve to be "bullied". Maybe what you perceive as bullying is actually just people holding up what you post to some scrutiny.
If you feel there are factual errors here, why don't you point them out, instead of wasting everyones time? |
Because I've done that in past discussions and it ended up wasting my time ... people kept right on posting false statements, even when I provided credible links, and the mods just let them go on doing it. I'd rather write this site off as utterly valueless and assume everyone here is a sock/troll/phisher/scammer.
The mods can't check every factual claim, but they can make reasonable efforts to ensure their site isn't used to perpetuate hoaxes, rumours and misinformation. They can discourage bullying and rudeness, but they don't.
And I disagree that this level of disregard for the truth is standard for message boards. I've been on other message boards where threads were pulled or locked, and people were banned or sanctioned, when they persisted in misrepresenting the facts and distorting the truth. On some boards, you can get banned for *one* homophobic, racist or misogynistic post. Obviously that's not the way it works here. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
[quote="Bramble"]
| Senior wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate. |
Haha, what are you talking about? The mods should fact check every single statement and quip, every person posts? You are deluded and deserve to be "bullied". Maybe what you perceive as bullying is actually just people holding up what you post to some scrutiny.
If you feel there are factual errors here, why don't you point them out, instead of wasting everyones time? |
Because I've done that in past discussions and it ended up wasting my time ... people kept right on posting false statements, even when I provided credible links, and the mods just let them go on doing it. I'd rather write this site off as utterly valueless and assume everyone here is a sock/troll/phisher/scammer. |
Haha, just because every other person on the planet doesn't agree with your point of view, then they are trolls phishers or scammers? That's a bit rich. I don't think you know what phishing means. If it happens on this site I would expect the mods to deal with it immediately and to call the appropriate authorities. The odd scam happens fro time to time. Trolls are part of the internet. It wouldn't be as fun without them.
I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Post some links to discussions where you think you were unfairly treated. I'd be happy to peruse them.
| Quote: |
| The mods can't check every factual claim, but they can make reasonable efforts to ensure their site isn't used to perpetuate hoaxes, rumours and misinformation. They can discourage bullying and rudeness, but they don't. |
I'm not sure if that is their job. Even if it were, how are you so sure that your version of reality is the correct one?
| Quote: |
| And I disagree that this level of disregard for the truth is standard for message boards. I've been on other message boards where threads were pulled or locked, and people were banned or sanctioned, when they persisted in misrepresenting the facts and distorting the truth. On some boards, you can get banned for *one* homophobic, racist or misogynistic post. Obviously that's not the way it works here. |
Find another board then. And again, how do you know that your version of reality is the correct one? Why don't you post some links to discussions where the "facts", as you put it, were distorted. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate. |
The only thing that has been posted that has been factually incorrect is the claim that PETA have funded terrorism. They sure as hell have given funds to convicted terrorists. I say again: who knows whether this actually funded terrorism or not. No proof one way or the other. It sure as hell allowed these convicted scum (for that is what terrorists are. Obviously this is not true of possibly the majority of convicts) to propagate their extremism. Other than that, everything posted is a matter of public record. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate. |
The only thing that has been posted that has been factually incorrect is the claim that PETA have funded terrorism. They sure as hell have given funds to convicted terrorists. I say again: who knows whether this actually funded terrorism or not. No proof one way or the other. It sure as hell allowed these convicted scum to propagate their extremism. Other than that, everything posted is a matter of public record. |
Quoting a stupid, ignorant television show is no way to support a legitimate critique of PETA or any other organization. I oppose the killing of healthy or treatable animals and I always encourage people to visit Nathan Winograd's site for an accurate, well-researched and well-documented rebuttal of PETA's approach to the homeless animal issue. Winograd is critical of PETA (and rightly so), but he doesn't single PETA out as the only wrongheaded animal organization--many "humane" societies also kill healthy or treatable animals, and their actions deserve equally harsh scrutiny.
Calling PETA "extremist" is laughable. The fact that they kill homeless animals is "extreme," yes, but only in the same way that many animal control organizations are "extreme." People are waking up now to the fact that it's wrong, but a decade or so ago it was considered normal throughout most of North America.
On other animal rights issues (such as the slaughter of animals for food), PETA has moved toward the "middle of the road" and compromised their original values by negotiating with industry representatives.
| Quote: |
| The only thing that has been posted that has been factually incorrect is the claim that PETA have funded terrorism. |
And that's just a minor quibble, right? If you accused me of doing that, I'd sue you for libel.
| Quote: |
| who knows whether this actually funded terrorism or not. No proof one way or the other. |
Can you prove you haven't funded terrorism? By the way, how are we defining terrorism?
There is no such thing as an "extremist" in the context of protecting animals from harm. If PETA did in fact support a prisoner who'd been convicted of sabotaging a slaughter facility (and I'd like to see the link establishing that for a fact), I'd have no problem with it (although as I've said, I no longer support them for other reasons).
Senior: No time for you today. If you're a mod, you're a bad one. If you're Dave Sperling, you're a joke. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| morrisonhotel wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
I stopped supporting PETA a few years ago, for a number of reasons, but that's not why I'm posting. This thread contains factual errors and the moderators should not allow people to post blatantly false statements. Mods, if you don't want this site to become a discredited tabloid, do some fact checking and monitor the forums for accuracy.
I'm not going to bother to add my opinions to this discussion because the forums are dominated by bullies. I don't think anyone who actually cares about the issues is likely to participate either, and it's unfortunate. |
The only thing that has been posted that has been factually incorrect is the claim that PETA have funded terrorism. They sure as hell have given funds to convicted terrorists. I say again: who knows whether this actually funded terrorism or not. No proof one way or the other. It sure as hell allowed these convicted scum to propagate their extremism. Other than that, everything posted is a matter of public record. |
Quoting a stupid, ignorant television show is no way to support a legitimate critique of PETA or any other organization. I oppose the killing of healthy or treatable animals and I always encourage people to visit Nathan Winograd's site for an accurate, well-researched and well-documented rebuttal of PETA's approach to the homeless animal issue. Winograd is critical of PETA (and rightly so), but he doesn't single PETA out as the only wrongheaded animal organization--many "humane" societies also kill healthy or treatable animals, and their actions deserve equally harsh scrutiny. |
The bolded part says a lot. It's your choice, but trying to force your choice, and advocate those who do use force, is extremism.
There is a difference between the "humane groups eg the RSPCA and PETA. PETA advocates the sanctity of all animal life (or some such). The RSPCA does what it thinks is best for both people and animals. If that means destroying an animal they can't adopt out, then so be it. PETAs actions are far more hypocritical?
| Quote: |
Calling PETA "extremist" is laughable. The fact that they kill homeless animals is "extreme," yes, but only in the same way that many animal control organizations are "extreme." People are waking up now to the fact that it's wrong, but a decade or so ago it was considered normal throughout most of North America. |
Euthanasing homeless animals is in no way extreme. It is the best thing for both the animal and society.
PETA advocates violence to protect animals. That is extremism.
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There is no such thing as an "extremist" in the context of protecting animals from harm. If PETA did in fact support a prisoner who'd been convicted of sabotaging a slaughter facility (and I'd like to see the link establishing that for a fact), I'd have no problem with it (although as I've said, I no longer support them for other reasons). |
Sick. Animals are more important than humans? That is sick.
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| Senior: No time for you today. If you're a mod, you're a bad one. If you're Dave Sperling, you're a joke. |
Good grief. Why don't you respond to my questions? Why won't you post the threads where you refuted someones claim, yet they continued to make that claim.
From what you have posted in this thread, it seems obvious that your thinking really is detached from reality. You have advocated using violence against innocent people, and defended groups that do the same. Sick. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior, you're a liar and a baiter who obviously hasn't read this thread or done any of the background reading that would make it worth participating in. Too bad for Dave's that this is allowed. |
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