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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| 15 years ago an ex (then pre) girlfriend of mine went to our high school's prom with her good female friend (non-lesbian) dressed in a tux more or less as a joke. No hue and cry from establishment, parents or students. Are we moving backwards? |
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Zilong
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Location: Broseidon's Lair
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| Whats the problem? She had her prom. The normal kids had their prom. |
+1 |
디배그+디배그 |
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balzor
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we would all agree that she was not the only gay/lesbian couple in that High School. How come no one else felt the need to make a huge mess of things? She could have just asked and when they said no, she should have said OK and just gone anyways and walked in together anyway, but instead she calls the ACLU and makes a huge deal out of it. This is one of the major problems that is wrong with America. If you don't get your way, just sue. |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| Whats the problem? She had her prom. The normal kids had their prom. |
No, she didn't have prom. They sent her to the school with like 5 other people while a school and parent sponsored prom (and yes, it was actually called "prom") happened across town.
They faked her out and then laughed about it afterward via Facebook.
Also...she's not normal? Okay. |
Why cant the school have two proms? Who "sponsored" the lesbians prom? What does it mean to sponsor a prom anyway?
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
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Zilong
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Location: Broseidon's Lair
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| Whats the problem? She had her prom. The normal kids had their prom. |
No, she didn't have prom. They sent her to the school with like 5 other people while a school and parent sponsored prom (and yes, it was actually called "prom") happened across town.
They faked her out and then laughed about it afterward via Facebook.
Also...she's not normal? Okay. |
Why cant the school have two proms? Who "sponsored" the lesbians prom? What does it mean to sponsor a prom anyway?
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
Normal is a loaded word, its not synonymous with 'status quo', and you're being intentionally inflammatory.
And Kabrams, that's the greatest avatar i've ever seen on dave's. |
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ropebreezy
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
You have a skewed sense of the word "normal." Are biologically sterile people not normal either? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| balzor wrote: |
| I think we would all agree that she was not the only gay/lesbian couple in that High School. How come no one else felt the need to make a huge mess of things? |
Most people are too timid to stand up for themselves. This goes double when standing up for yourself requries doing so in public. This goes triple when the individuals in question are children.
| balzor wrote: |
| She could have just asked and when they said no, she should have said OK and just gone anyways and walked in together anyway ... |
Yes, then she could have been escorted out anyway, and been triumped over by the adults who are needlessly antagonizing a child because of her sexual orientation anyway, and we could chalk up another needless injustice that went unspoken.
Dragging situations like this -- where people in power are needlessly antagonizing people without power -- into the public eye is a good thing. Our society needs more of it, not less. If someone is going to be a hateful, spiteful person who is going to use their power to harass a child because of her sexual orientation, then society should know about it.
| balzor wrote: |
| This is one of the major problems that is wrong with America. If you don't get your way, just sue. |
Yes, there are plenty of frivilous lawsuits. This wasn't one of them. Why are you defending adults needlessly harassing children from positions of power? |
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balzor
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| balzor wrote: |
| I think we would all agree that she was not the only gay/lesbian couple in that High School. How come no one else felt the need to make a huge mess of things? |
Most people are too timid to stand up for themselves. This goes double when standing up for yourself requries doing so in public. This goes triple when the individuals in question are children.
| balzor wrote: |
| She could have just asked and when they said no, she should have said OK and just gone anyways and walked in together anyway ... |
Yes, then she could have been escorted out anyway, and been triumped over by the adults who are needlessly antagonizing a child because of her sexual orientation anyway, and we could chalk up another needless injustice that went unspoken.
Dragging situations like this -- where people in power are needlessly antagonizing people without power -- into the public eye is a good thing. Our society needs more of it, not less. If someone is going to be a hateful, spiteful person who is going to use their power to harass a child because of her sexual orientation, then society should know about it.
| balzor wrote: |
| This is one of the major problems that is wrong with America. If you don't get your way, just sue. |
Yes, there are plenty of frivilous lawsuits. This wasn't one of them. Why are you defending adults needlessly harassing children from positions of power? |
so when she knew that the whole junior and senior class would be penalized, she could have withdrawn her petition for the benefit of all of her friends. It's no wonder very few showed up to the dance she went to, but hey, at least she is the new face of teenage gay rights because that's what is really important. I'm not saying that the school is right on this issue at all. I am completely tolerant and think everyone has the right to be who they want to be, but not if it comes at the expense of everyone else |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| balzor wrote: |
| so when she knew that the whole junior and senior class would be penalized, she could have withdrawn her petition for the benefit of all of her friends. |
Could have, but shouldn't have. The people who chose to penalize the junior and senior class in order to pursue their needless harassment of this girl over her sexual orientation are the villains here. Why are you trying to project blame for their actions onto this girl? She didn't cancel the prom. She just refused to accept their illegal antagonization lying down.
| balzor wrote: |
| I'm not saying that the school is right on this issue at all. |
Then why on Earth should she have accepted their behavior -- or tried to passive-aggressively circumvent -- instead of doing what she did? These people were wrong, and they behaved illegally. I don't understand why anyone would condemn this girl for standing up to them. We need more people standing up to people who abuse their authority, not less. The fact that they found a way to circumvent the law and have their way just shows exactly how much they're willing to abuse their authority purely and only for the sake of punishing children for their sexual orientation.
| balzor wrote: |
| but not if it comes at the expense of everyone else |
It was the school administrators who punished everyone for her behavior, not this young lady. The administrators at this school broke the law. Instead of just accepting their antagonization, she called them on it, and they were forced to comply with the law. Their choice to punish the other students by cancelling the official prom was their doing, not hers. They aren't some sort of force of nature that was simply reacting to her action in the only way they could. The cancellation of the official prom was 100% their doing, and 0% hers. |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Zilong wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| Whats the problem? She had her prom. The normal kids had their prom. |
No, she didn't have prom. They sent her to the school with like 5 other people while a school and parent sponsored prom (and yes, it was actually called "prom") happened across town.
They faked her out and then laughed about it afterward via Facebook.
Also...she's not normal? Okay. |
Why cant the school have two proms? Who "sponsored" the lesbians prom? What does it mean to sponsor a prom anyway?
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
Normal is a loaded word, its not synonymous with 'status quo', and you're being intentionally inflammatory.
And Kabrams, that's the greatest avatar i've ever seen on dave's. |
Refrain from telling me what my intentions are. |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ropebreezy wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
You have a skewed sense of the word "normal." Are biologically sterile people not normal either? |
It is the "norm" for humans to be able to reproduce. So yes biologically sterile people are not normal (as well as homosexuals). They may be decent, worthwhile people, but they are not normal. |
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ropebreezy
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
| ropebreezy wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
You have a skewed sense of the word "normal." Are biologically sterile people not normal either? |
It is the "norm" for humans to be able to reproduce. So yes biologically sterile people are not normal (as well as homosexuals). They may be decent, worthwhile people, but they are not normal. |
Homosexuals can absolutely reproduce, what are you talking about?
What is the worth of your definition of "normal" within the context of this debate? More specifically, why did you feel it necessary to say "the normal kids" vs the kids who attended this poor girl's "alternative" prom? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
| ropebreezy wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
You have a skewed sense of the word "normal." Are biologically sterile people not normal either? |
It is the "norm" for humans to be able to reproduce. So yes biologically sterile people are not normal (as well as homosexuals). They may be decent, worthwhile people, but they are not normal. |
So we should have fertility tests before prom to see who should go?
lol..yea I also want to know your definition of normal. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Obviously it's not about the stupid prom. She could have just said **** the prom and not gone. She wants to be accepted by the school and she never will be but she can try to pave the way for others or let the school know she won't tolerate their intolerance.
It's not normal to be handicapped either but it doesn't mean we need a special disabled people's prom, or "special" prom. Proms tend to be backwards anyway, in some places they have racially segregated proms still, there was even a lame lifetime movie about it.
A seperate gay prom would be kind of lame cause unless you're in a place like SF then there just wouldn't be enough people. Most gay teens aren't confident or aware enough of their sexual orientation to be open about it. Seems like that's changing however. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
| ropebreezy wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
While I believe homosexuals deserve to have the same rights as everyone else, they are not normal. Homosexuality is not the norm. Otherwise the entire earth would be inhabited by just eleven people. |
You have a skewed sense of the word "normal." Are biologically sterile people not normal either? |
It is the "norm" for humans to be able to reproduce. So yes biologically sterile people are not normal (as well as homosexuals). They may be decent, worthwhile people, but they are not normal. |
Prepubertal children and postmenopausal women cannot reproduce yet are certainly normal.
I do, however, appreciate your statistical definition of the word "normal." In that sense, heterosexuality is the norm, and homosexuality is not. This is not pejorative, merely statistical. |
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