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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hotpants wrote: |
However, you've got to assume your resume gets accepted for interview stage in the first place for you to be able to do your spin spiel. |
That is what a cover letter is for.
The cover letter is the bait to lure them to you (get past the reject pile so they actually look at your resume). Keep it simple with a positive spin showing how YOU are GOOD for THEM.
Resume is your rod and line to hold them (yes, you have the qualifications they are looking for).
The interview is for reeling them in. Put your best foot forward. It is your stage to shine upon and your job to lose at this point.
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frankly speaking
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:36 am Post subject: |
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100% agree with you Tom.
However, when applying for positions that aren't entry level, you would be up against people with actually relevant experience that 100% pertains to the job and not just how you spin it.
I know too many people that have been in Asia for 4+ years that tried to go back and get into the field that they are actually trained in. Most of them have had very little luck and almost all have had to start from the bottom. Many have also had to go back to University to brush up on relevant skills.
You are a bright guy with a lot of good advice here, but be careful to paint too much of an optimistic picture on EFL jobs in Korea helping someone get jobs in an unrelated field back home.
Yes, you might have basic communicative ability, but someone that has only been in Korea for a year or two most likely won't. If you parade your language skills, they might put it to the test.
If you think it is that easy, then I challenge you to actually go back and try and get a good non entry level position parading your unrelated qualifications.
Unrelated experience, is unrelated no matter what country you are doing it in.
I think that people that actually have a career path should stick to it. It looks much better on a resume to be building towards something rather than switching in mid stream every few years to do fun and interesting things.
One year post graduation isn't going to hurt you, but if you stay in Asia for a while, it will be hard to get back in the game. |
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goniff
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: |
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the short answer is...
NO! |
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Hotpants
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:47 am Post subject: |
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If you already have a steady job back home, and if you are just thinking of Korea as a temporary escape from the daily grind, don't do it. TEFL doesn't sound like the answer for your situation. The job market is really a much tougher place for all these days whether at home or abroad, and anyone in a halfway decent job now is really lucky. Start applying for new jobs which might have more appeal, but don't quit your day job just yet. |
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Sody
Joined: 14 May 2006
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: |
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ttompatz wrote: |
Interviewer: "I see that you lived in Korea for a few years"
Me: Yes, it was a wonderful experience.
Interviewer: Can you speak Korean?
Me: Yes, I can communicate in basic Korean for most daily living activities.
Interviewer: What kind of skills did you learn that apply to business management?
Me: I taught phonics to 8 year old children.
Interviewer: How does that relate?
Me: It taught me operational management in a real time environment. Classroom control of fifteen 8-year-olds is akin to keeping a floor of union workers on the job and happily working at their assigned tasks. You learn to think on your feet, be ready for the unexpected, make accurate decisions with a minimum of fuss and are able to function in an adverse environment.
Keeping their mom's happy was an exercise in customer service and satisfaction. Dealing with their complaints and concerns and knowing how to respond in a positive manner was crucial. Unhappy moms meant no students and no job. A well behaved classroom with attention to detail and a positive learning environment meant the students were happy and learning which meant the moms were happy customers.
Working and living abroad in a foreign culture for a period of a couple years meant having to deal with the language barriers in daily life, dealing with strange and unexpected situations, dealing with culture shock and being able to adapt as necessary to new and changing conditions.
What better experience can you ask for when training for a management position?
It is all how you spin it.
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Sorry, I know you mean well but I gotta disagree. I'm not saying this to challenge you or argue but I don't want someone to go to Korea thinking that their experience there will be anything but an ESL vacation. Reading your mock interview, don't you think it is a bit of a stretch? You can try and spin whatever you want but unless your experience teaching ESL/EFL in Korea pertains to the job you want back home it will do very little to help you here in North America.
If you are applying for a teaching position here then it might help, but even then as I said, it would be better to have experience in a public school or a university. |
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cedarseoul
Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Location: nowon-gu
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with ttompatz; his "mock interview" resembles the interview that landed me my job (which is not entry-level). And as for my wife's paralegal position...it's entry-level in her firm, but above average in terms of salary.
Now, like I said--we're coming back. We preferred ESL to the office grind. We'd rather live in Seoul than Cincinnati.
But in my interviews here in the States, managers were very interested in the fact that I survived--thrived, even--in an "exotic" environment, that I embraced the challenge of living overseas, that I developed basic communicative skills in a second language that's not Spanish. Maybe this experience wouldn't help so much in a highly specialized field or for an executive-level position...but for the types of jobs most BA's and BBA's pursue, I think it can be relevant and an "edge" over young would-be professionals who never left the comforts of home. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:51 am Post subject: |
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ttompatz wrote: |
Hotpants wrote: |
However, you've got to assume your resume gets accepted for interview stage in the first place for you to be able to do your spin spiel. |
That is what a cover letter is for.
The cover letter is the bait to lure them to you (get past the reject pile so they actually look at your resume). Keep it simple with a positive spin showing how YOU are GOOD for THEM.
Resume is your rod and line to hold them (yes, you have the qualifications they are looking for).
The interview is for reeling them in. Put your best foot forward. It is your stage to shine upon and your job to lose at this point.
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I agree, it depends a lot on what you did and accomplished.
There's a big difference in, I taught ESL for 8 yrs at an elite near ivy league school & I helped start a thriving franchise, develop a curriculum, marketing, and what not.
The context for jobs is always different but, the skill sets never change. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Is ESL experience really resume enhancing...? |
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charger wrote: |
... for someone with a BBA who doesn't necessarily want to be a teacher when he returns. I'm fed up working retail and I am ready to leave Canada and become an ESL teacher, but I know that teaching isn't something I want to do for life. If anything, going to Korea is about experiencing and working in a foreign culture, the fact that I am paid half decently is a nice benefit.
My dilemma is whether having a year or two of teaching in Korea is really going to get me any further ahead once I get back. It is debatable whether working at Future Shop in the interim and looking for a real job is any better though.
I am hoping that some people who have taught in Korea and came back and found that their teaching experience in Korea has helped them land non-teaching jobs back home. |
The bolded part makes you about average as far as applicants go. The fact teaching is so low on your list of reasons to go to Korea may mean you will have a rough time because frankly, Teaching is a hard and demanding job.
Is ESL resume building?
If used for relevant positions yes.
If used for irrelevant positions no.
Kinda simple...
How can it be resume building?
If you enhance with other knowledge and skills. While you teach, learn Korean (it can pay off quite well in certain fields), while you teach and earna decent wage, enroll in a distance program and earn new skills and credentials.
While you are in Korea PLAN your return home by looking for work in advance and building a decent financial foundation for yourself.
With improved qualifications and finances and new skills you can increase your employability.
If on the other hand you show up to Korea and play bingo all year with your Hakwon students then guess what? It brings nothing to your resume and does nothing for employability....
Frankly speaking and his interview example was very telling...second question was "can you speak Korean"...saying no will lower your employability for many employers because to them the main benefit of an applicant with overseas experience is language acquisition.
Now how can EFL be applicable to work back home?
Teaching jobs
Consulting
Public Sector jobs (with Korean language acquisition).
* for example DFAIT (Canadian foreign affairs) lists select languages as application enhancers. Knowing these languages means you get priority consideration for employment if you also meet the other qualifications. Korean is on that list. �
Private sector
*Companies that deal with Asia and Korea are not that rare. Knowing the region and one asian language along with acquiring key skills sets you apart. You will have to research companies and can even create your own job.
I was a certified full-time teacher in Canada prior to coming to Korea. I am now working for the public sector in Canada (with travel to asia) and got that job because of what I did in Korea. What did I do? I studied Korean until i became fluent, I acquired extra credentials (certificate in Managment), started a consulting agency in Korea that I still run (cross-cultural training)....
I have friends who have been in Korea for just as long as I was (11 years +) and who have done nothing much beyond the minimum required for their teaching jobs. That will hurt them eventually. |
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frankly speaking
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Very good points Patrick.
My example interview wasn't personal experience though, I was just characterizing the typical 1-2 year teacher in Korea. Not those that are professional teachers that are building a career path. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
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I know frankly speaking.
I just thought your interview example was quite useful. |
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KoreanAmbition

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Go to China for 3 or 4 years.... make sure the final year is working in one of the main cities.
Study Mandarin as hard as you can.
Then return home, and make sure you highlight your Mandarin fluency at the top of your resume.
You won't have any problems getting interviews. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yep,
It is one of the things that shocks me about South Korean ESL teachers. the vast majority of them can't speak any Korean whereas I met many teachers that had JLPT 2 and a high level of mandarin, spanish etc from living a few years in those respective countries teaching. You can harp on all you want about how useless Korean is but if you put in some effort an employer will take notice. I've managed to get some good part-time work already because the adjossis that hired me were impressed that I've only been here for 8 months and can speak at a lower intermediate level. To them they saw it as determination and motivation.
And no survival Korean doesn't count. An employer will not be impressed because over 4 years you learned how to say "left and "right" and blah blah blah "chuseyo."
If one cared about their future they would make an effort to at least get to a lower intermediate level (to the people that stay only one year to travel this post doesn't really apply) . Too bad most ESL teachers can't be arsed. They're throwing away a good opportunity in my opinion. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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misher wrote: |
Yep,
. I've managed to get some good part-time work already because the adjossis that hired me were impressed that I've only been here for 8 months and can speak at a lower intermediate level. To them they saw it as determination and motivation.
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We are talking about returning home to find a job there...not here though. Not too many Korean adjossis there are going to be interviewing you.
And French, Spanish or Chinese is going to be more helpful to you than learning Korean... the first two certainly in most parts of North America at least. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
misher wrote: |
Yep,
. I've managed to get some good part-time work already because the adjossis that hired me were impressed that I've only been here for 8 months and can speak at a lower intermediate level. To them they saw it as determination and motivation.
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We are talking about returning home to find a job there...not here though. Not too many Korean adjossis there are going to be interviewing you.
And French, Spanish or Chinese is going to be more helpful to you than learning Korean... the first two certainly in most parts of North America at least. |
That's quite probably true, but most of the folks I've met in Korea who aren't learning Korean aren't learning any other languages (or much of anything, really), either. If you want to study those languages to help you get a job, that makes perfect sense. But when you are in Korea, the country where Korean is spoken, you could attain at least an intermediate level of proficiency with not too much effort. Overall, I agree with you that learning at least one other language is important, but I also agree with misher that not learning Korean to some extent if you are here for more than 2 years is a big waste. |
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