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US Soccer and its shortcomings
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dsun1226



Joined: 27 May 2010
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's great that millions of children play soccer at a young age (I played myself as a kid and for a year in high school) but it comes down to the mindset of these youth programs. Is the point of youth soccer to prepare these kids for the professional level or is it so that they're doing something productive once a week and not playing video games? Unfortunately I feel that while things have improved, the mindset still tends to be the latter, with a vast majority of youth/academy coaches being parents who are limited in resources and advanced knowledge in the theory of soccer. In places such as Europe and South America, children are placed into academy systems in which they are being given nothing but the best nutrition, equipment, and coaching to ensure that these kids will eventually become top-class talent. Canada does a great job of this with hockey and the U.S. with football (crazy how high school/college football has become such a huge business).

Until the U.S. decides to take a more similar model to the Europeans and South Americans we will always be a good national team, but not elite.
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMO wrote:
Seoulio wrote:
JMO wrote:
Steve_Rogers2008 wrote:
I believe people saying Americans don't watch soccer because it's so boring! 90 minutes for a 0-0 tie is exciting?

and who wants to play a boring game?


It amazes me that people actually judge a game exciting/boring by how high a score is produced. Surely Cricket is the most awesome sport ever produced. Teams can, gasp, score 500 runs (points)!!



Yeah imagine that eh, people getting excited about scoring. Why does this amaze you? Hockey, Football, soccer, baseball etc, MOST of the enjoyment is in the scoring. There are others where the scoring is constant so its the ralleys/process that peek interest ( volleyball, badminton, golf, tennis, basketball)

TO watch a ball go up and down the court, and never getting a goal is not the idea many of us have for fun.

I am sure if I was drunk and had a full frontal lobotomy I would love watching a non scoring game over and over again, but as I am a non drinker and have full use of my faculties soccer is not for me ( just a little jibe there, its sarcasm so don't jump down my throat)


first of all. If you are being sarcastic, and that is barely sarcasm, don't point it out. It demeans us both.

secondly, in my experience the more casual the fan, the more interested he is in scoring. I'm an avid college football fan and I massively enjoy low scoring defensive games(especially in the SEC). However if I watch baseball for example, their had better be lots and lots of runs. That is because I have limited understanding of baseball and I'm not really a fan.

As a soccer fan, I'm quite happy to lose the casual fan. Enough people around the world love the game. Why change it for the few who don't.



No considering the amount of people who don't understand the distinction I felt like pointing out that I am not actually insulting soccer fans with that bad joke.

As for your thing about the points hey, thats you, I would imagine some of the die hard fans still enjoy watching some goals put up.

If your team went ten games in a row that ended in a scoreless tie I would think youd find that a bit boring, don't con us and say that this would be just fine by you Smile

Also, you are being quite elitist with the "I'm a die hard, only die hards should have interest" Often its the casual fan that evolves into a die hard, or do people wake up and just start as a raging soccer fan?

Its pretty much the nature of sports, POINTS and GOALS are exciting. Thats why when I watch the KOrean soccer matches I hear this REALLY LOUD CHEERING when there was a goal scored. Especially when goals are necessary for advancement to the next round of the World Cup at this point
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metalhead



Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulio wrote:
JMO wrote:
Seoulio wrote:
JMO wrote:
Steve_Rogers2008 wrote:
I believe people saying Americans don't watch soccer because it's so boring! 90 minutes for a 0-0 tie is exciting?

and who wants to play a boring game?


It amazes me that people actually judge a game exciting/boring by how high a score is produced. Surely Cricket is the most awesome sport ever produced. Teams can, gasp, score 500 runs (points)!!



Yeah imagine that eh, people getting excited about scoring. Why does this amaze you? Hockey, Football, soccer, baseball etc, MOST of the enjoyment is in the scoring. There are others where the scoring is constant so its the ralleys/process that peek interest ( volleyball, badminton, golf, tennis, basketball)

TO watch a ball go up and down the court, and never getting a goal is not the idea many of us have for fun.

I am sure if I was drunk and had a full frontal lobotomy I would love watching a non scoring game over and over again, but as I am a non drinker and have full use of my faculties soccer is not for me ( just a little jibe there, its sarcasm so don't jump down my throat)


first of all. If you are being sarcastic, and that is barely sarcasm, don't point it out. It demeans us both.

secondly, in my experience the more casual the fan, the more interested he is in scoring. I'm an avid college football fan and I massively enjoy low scoring defensive games(especially in the SEC). However if I watch baseball for example, their had better be lots and lots of runs. That is because I have limited understanding of baseball and I'm not really a fan.

As a soccer fan, I'm quite happy to lose the casual fan. Enough people around the world love the game. Why change it for the few who don't.



No considering the amount of people who don't understand the distinction I felt like pointing out that I am not actually insulting soccer fans with that bad joke.

As for your thing about the points hey, thats you, I would imagine some of the die hard fans still enjoy watching some goals put up.

If your team went ten games in a row that ended in a scoreless tie I would think youd find that a bit boring, don't con us and say that this would be just fine by you Smile

Also, you are being quite elitist with the "I'm a die hard, only die hards should have interest" Often its the casual fan that evolves into a die hard, or do people wake up and just start as a raging soccer fan?

Its pretty much the nature of sports, POINTS and GOALS are exciting. Thats why when I watch the KOrean soccer matches I hear this REALLY LOUD CHEERING when there was a goal scored. Especially when goals are necessary for advancement to the next round of the World Cup at this point


Except that scoring barely happens in soccer. It's a boring game, and is fueled on nationalism pretty much, or a 'My area of England is better than yours because Chelsea beat Tottenham' - Christ, I'm pretty good with geography, even I can't find those places on the map.

But yeah, obviously soccer is not about that, Polish skinheads like all sports 'cept for soccer, right? It's a game of hatred and secularism, nothing more, nothing less.
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El Macho



Joined: 07 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMO wrote:
Yea, I read that article. I actually heard about on this blog.

http://mustreadsoccer.com/

It collects all the best writing from around the web on football. Some of the best blogs out there are American btw.
Thanks, I hadn't seen that site before. ShinGuardian is my current favorite soccer blog, but FutbolForGringos is pretty good, too. It's great to have informed comment on soccer from Americans...growing up I remember all I could find was Soccer America magazine, which was and is just terrible.
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulio wrote:

Also, you are being quite elitist with the "I'm a die hard, only die hards should have interest" Often its the casual fan that evolves into a die hard, or do people wake up and just start as a raging soccer fan?


Well, that wasn't quite my point. My point was that the game is intensely popular around the world. Why change it to suit the people who don't like it? I love the game the way it is. I'd support some changes about video replay and maybe some other minor ones, but anything to artificially raise the amount of goals scored would not be ok.
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalhead wrote:

It's a boring game, and is fueled on nationalism pretty much, or a 'My area of England is better than yours because Chelsea beat Tottenham' - Christ, I'm pretty good with geography, even I can't find those places on the map.

.


Well if you have a map of London it would be pretty easy. Your lack of geographical knowledge aside, I'll think you'll find that almost any sport has these same elements of nationalism and regionalism.

In soccer it seems more prevalent because soccer is more prevalent. I have to think though, if everyone thought it was so boring, wouldn't they find another vehicle for their rampant nationalism? [/b]
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professional contact sports players like Football Players and Professional Wrestlers are much more prone to very early dementia. This is one more good reason Soccer is better than American Football. Why researchers don't know, but my guess is all that battered tissue in the battered body goes to the brain.
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Steve_Rogers2008



Joined: 22 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only george carlin had a chance to compare soccer in his rants.... Crying or Very sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXacL0Uny0
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their qualifying group is not of a high enough standard. Whilst it guarentees qualification to every final, playing the likes of Canada and Jamacia is no way to prepare for playings the likes of Brazil and co...

They should (much like what Australia have done with Asia) ask to move to South American qualifying. Sure they run the risk of missing out on the odd WC but long term it would mean they arrive at the finals on a more level standard of preparation as the Europeans and Sth American sides. It could only improve their chances of winning it.

This is equally applicable for the Mexician side as well.
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conrad2



Joined: 05 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US already has the finest soccer players in the world. They are called the women's national team. What is happenig on the womens side that isnt happening on the mens?
American boys aspire to become American football and basketball players and to a lesser extent baseball and hockey. Not enough care to beacome soccer players. Until this basic fundamental changes, the US will be mediocre and no Ajax style academies will spring up.
The US has a lot of wasted athletic talent that could be used for soccer. Every year thousands of college football and basketball players fail to make to pro ranks and they just move on with their lives. If some of these talented athletes had focused on soccer, who knows.
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

conrad2 wrote:
The US already has the finest soccer players in the world. They are called the women's national team. What is happenig on the womens side that isnt happening on the mens?


On the womens side the American amateur (high school/college) model can work as there is little competition world wide. On the mens sides, this model will fail due to intense worldwide competition. Soccer is the only sport exposed to this.

The issue isn't the lack of athlete. There is more than sufficient numbers playing the game to late teens/college/adult age. There are just under 400,000 high school boys playing soccer (more than women). That is more than enough to produce a very good international team.

The issue is that coaching and development is behind the rest of the world. The high school/college and pay to play at clubs can't work when 12 years old kids in other countries are getting great coaching.

The american obsession with athletes always amuses me. Does Messi look like an athlete? Does Xavi look like an athlete? Teach kids technique young and let them use their imagination and you can have a great team in a generation.
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dumpring



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Auckland, NZ

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahaha, that made my day. Ururguay, Paraguay, Argentina and Slovenia apparently play cricket -__-

Baseball is a terribly boring game. Where's the strategy? Take steroids, get buff and try to hit a ball someone throws at you? It's more fun on the Wii than in real life.
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Steve_Rogers2008



Joined: 22 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMO wrote:
conrad2 wrote:
The US already has the finest soccer players in the world. They are called the women's national team. What is happenig on the womens side that isnt happening on the mens?


On the womens side the American amateur (high school/college) model can work as there is little competition world wide. On the mens sides, this model will fail due to intense worldwide competition. Soccer is the only sport exposed to this.

The issue isn't the lack of athlete. There is more than sufficient numbers playing the game to late teens/college/adult age. There are just under 400,000 high school boys playing soccer (more than women). That is more than enough to produce a very good international team.

The issue is that coaching and development is behind the rest of the world. The high school/college and pay to play at clubs can't work when 12 years old kids in other countries are getting great coaching.

The american obsession with athletes always amuses me. Does Messi look like an athlete? Does Xavi look like an athlete? Teach kids technique young and let them use their imagination and you can have a great team in a generation.


now who's stereotyping Americans? care to explain how we ended up with that fruit Beckham in Hollywoodland? Mad
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Quack Addict



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to get into soccer. I want to like it. The problem is the inconsistancies with the referees. One play its a foul, the other its not. And the diving! A little bump and the player falls down like he was just shot. Then when he sees nobody cares...he's up running full speed down the field. What the heck?

I don't mind the lack of scoring. Some of the best baseball games are 1-0 or 2-1. Add some instant replay and this game would be way better. In the NFL a coach can challenge a call by throwing a red flag. Do the same in soccer and what we saw with England and Mexico would be eliminated. It takes 30 seconds to look at the replay. All the fans at home and in the stands have replay.

As for Americans getting more into it. I don't see it. Sports in USA:

1. American Football
2. Basketball
3. Baseball
4. Hockey (low scoring but there is fighting)
5. Soccer

Your not going to get the best athletes to play when the sport is ranked 5th in the country.
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where I stereotyped Americans. I read a lot of American sports journalism and it seems to be a prevalent idea that if only their 'athletes' were playing soccer, then they would dominate.

Whilst it would be beneficial for a larger % of the population played, there are more than enough players in the country.

I do think there is an obsession in American sports journalism about the 'athlete'. 'Athlete' often being a euphemism for being of west African origin. I have a pet idea that the reason that international white players in the NBA are so much more successful than American white players, is because of this inbuilt bias in American culture.
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