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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Get out of my elevator |
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| Louis VI wrote: |
| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| ...are so in-your-face rude... Is this behavior not rude in Korea? |
Obligations arise out of relationships in Korean society, so that once one meets someone one has to be polite, is really quite considerate and responsible, but there is no sense of responsibility or obligation to strangers, so people act like they don't exist, aren't considerate in the least to the feelings and situation of someone they haven't met. There's a lack of civiic duty toward others in general - it's a cultural thing.
So, in short, it's not RUDE, because you do not exist to them as a person until you have been introduced to them. Obligations arise within relationships. No overarching cultural mandate from religion (love thy neighbour, be a good samaritan, etc). And in a nation of cities crowded with millions of strangers, people just try to get by, literally they just tried to GET BY you. No need for politeness here, just get on with things. If you get upset at them for their "rudeness"" they'd just look puzzled, don't understand what's wrong because they don't perceive any obligation toward strangers whatsoever.
This is NOT Kansas. |
That was the old deal. Old-style Confucian manners..........but for the past few decades Koreans have been adopting more western-style manners. Koreans who follow these manners are considered polite in modern Korean society.
But those who continue to push, spit, swear, use cellphones, elevators, doors and bus seats in a rude way are considered country bumpkins or just rude.
Almost all Koreans, especially middle-class Koreans, do actually know they should be polite to strangers when out and about. Everyone knows the etiquette and manners of modern day living.......it's just that a lot of people can't be bothered to take the time to observe the etiquette with people that they don't care about.........in short, they do act rudely.
Don't let the apologists here tell you it's a cultural thing that we should bend to and tolerate......if we lived here 70 years ago, yeah, maybe....but this is 2010. Koreans judge each other's politeness now by in large with the same measurements we do.
When a Korean (or anyone!) is rude to me I give them a good hard stare until they turn their head with embarrassment because they knew they were doing something rude, but were pretending to act normally. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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It is rude and they know it, they just don't care. The people that act this way, and there are a lot, think they are the most important.
I think of this when I'm told: Korean's are kind! I usually but bite my tongue, but I've told my wife before, they seem rude and selfish to me.
The idea that other people don't matter is rude in itself. It is almost psychopathic, at least egocentric. |
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Illysook
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| I hate people who take the elevator just one floor. It's been a pet peave of mine since college. All of the science labs were on the top floor. I'd barely get squeezed into the elevator, or possibly have to wait for the next one because people couldn't be bothered to walk up one flight of stairs. |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Get out of my elevator |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
| Louis VI wrote: |
| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| ...are so in-your-face rude... Is this behavior not rude in Korea? |
Obligations arise out of relationships in Korean society, so that once one meets someone one has to be polite, is really quite considerate and responsible, but there is no sense of responsibility or obligation to strangers, so people act like they don't exist, aren't considerate in the least to the feelings and situation of someone they haven't met. There's a lack of civiic duty toward others in general - it's a cultural thing.
So, in short, it's not RUDE, because you do not exist to them as a person until you have been introduced to them. Obligations arise within relationships. No overarching cultural mandate from religion (love thy neighbour, be a good samaritan, etc). And in a nation of cities crowded with millions of strangers, people just try to get by, literally they just tried to GET BY you. No need for politeness here, just get on with things. If you get upset at them for their "rudeness"" they'd just look puzzled, don't understand what's wrong because they don't perceive any obligation toward strangers whatsoever.
This is NOT Kansas. |
I have heard this cop out crap so many times. I dont buy it. Koreans also dont like to be shoved, bumped, and cut in front of in line. I see it every day on the subway. |
Yes it's no excuse but I think it is to be expected in big cities. At a bar in London for example, you sometimes have to fight to keep your place in the queue. I remember helping a woman with her heavy bags and she pretty much fell in love on the spot, judging from how overwhelmed she was.
Not a fan of it whatsoever though, this every man for himself attitude, pisses me off
And yes it is rude. I remember in Korea going on a bit of a road trip, and we were on a busy road at lunchtime. There was a guy lying in the middle of the road, cars just driving past him.. My friend and I were shocked, but our Korean friend was just "He's drunk". In the middle of the road in the afternoon. We had to shout at him to get him to call the police about it. Shocking.
It doesnt take religious teaching to know that helping others and being considerate is a good thing. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Dude, you need to take a deep breath and realize that you're ranting over an extra 45 seconds you had to wait.
Truth be told, while what they did was thoughtless, I could picture myself doing the same thing. If I was engrossed in conversation with someone, I'd probably mindlessly push the elevator button as well. They didn't know you were in a foul mood or had melting ice cream, just as you don't know if one of them has a medical condition that prevents them from using the elevator. I had a student with fibromyalgia. She looked like a healthy, young woman, but she could not walk far or take any stairs. She told me how much abuse she got because people saw her with a handicap placard when she looked healthy. She also told me how she would sometimes be unable to move and would have to call friends to carry her back home because the pain became excruciating.
A few minutes ago while late to work, I was stuck behind a guy who was going 10 miles below the speed limit in the fast lane. When he came upon a yellow light, he sped up, just made the light, and left me having to wait. If I let everyday things like that get to me, I'd probably explode. |
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Forward Observer
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
Dude, you need to take a deep breath and realize that you're ranting over an extra 45 seconds you had to wait.
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You and I can sit back and say this because we don't have the added stress (I think) of living in Korea. I was actually thinking the same thing, until I started to remember that when you have a really bad day in Korea, 45 seconds is a lifetime. But more than that, it's the totally selfish act that becomes the trigger.
It's really a matter of breaking points. Some people last longer than others between them, and they're better at dealing. Can't say I haven't had a few of those days myself, but now that I've been home for six seven months, I look back and can't seem to remember all the annoyances as clearly. Things start to fade, and you tend to put the more negative memories away. |
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curiousaboutkorea
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
Dude, you need to take a deep breath and realize that you're ranting over an extra 45 seconds you had to wait.
Truth be told, while what they did was thoughtless, I could picture myself doing the same thing. If I was engrossed in conversation with someone, I'd probably mindlessly push the elevator button as well. They didn't know you were in a foul mood or had melting ice cream, just as you don't know if one of them has a medical condition that prevents them from using the elevator. I had a student with fibromyalgia. She looked like a healthy, young woman, but she could not walk far or take any stairs. She told me how much abuse she got because people saw her with a handicap placard when she looked healthy. She also told me how she would sometimes be unable to move and would have to call friends to carry her back home because the pain became excruciating.
A few minutes ago while late to work, I was stuck behind a guy who was going 10 miles below the speed limit in the fast lane. When he came upon a yellow light, he sped up, just made the light, and left me having to wait. If I let everyday things like that get to me, I'd probably explode. |
This is Dave's. It's (partly) a place for ranting. It's a safe place to just let out frustration. |
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curiousaboutkorea
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
I once had to yell at an ajumma who tried to cut in front or me at Homeplus for a taxi. There was a very old woman just ahead, and I was waving for the taxi to move up for her, so that she could get in first (I care about the elderly, not pig-headed middle agers) and I'd take the next. He understood, and as I was picking up my grocery bags, this ajumma walked right in front of me to the taxi that pulled up to me and opened the door. I yelled (in Korean) No! Grandma first, me second, you third! Are you a pig?
I'm sure my grammar was off, but boy did she get my point!
Her eyes bugged out and she got out of the taxi. The driver laughed the duration of the trip. |
This can be frustrating. I've experienced this rudeness by ajumma, as well, but didn't have the means or guts at the time to say anything. Seems to happen a lot when I (clearly) give up my seat on the subway for an elderly person, and the ajumma comes and takes it. If I do try to say something, they just ignore me, and I'm honestly not that confident. Other people just seem to shake their heads at the ajumma, including the elderly person expecting to get the seat. |
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Epik_Teacher
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pangaea wrote: |
NYC_Gal wrote:
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This is why I'm glad that I learned how to reprimand for rudeness in Korean. My grammar might not be perfect, but
a) they're flabbergasted that I speak more Korean than hello, thank you, and how much does this cost?,
b) I talk to them as if they're children, which is fun, and
c) they usually back off, humiliated because they're afraid of a 5' tall girl. |
I must learn this.
What makes me furious is people pushing into the elevator before I can get off. As soon as the door starts to open a teeny crack, someone will push their way on and practically run over me. |
I'm to the point where I just push them out of the way. Same for the subway. How the hell can they expect to get on a subway when everyone is getting off? I just brush them out of the way backhand style and keep going. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Get out of my elevator |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
Is this behavior not rude in Korea? |
Well, no. They probably didn't even notice you standing there. You didn't register. You're like a great big white elephant in the room. They only sort of know you're there, a hazy nonentity. Foreigner or not, you're a stranger--as someone more or less mentioned above. It's that famous bubble mentality. You're not in my world.
And I would have reprimanded them in English. I always do and it is very effective. It's all about the tone of voice. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
It is rude and they know it, they just don't care. The people that act this way, and there are a lot, think they are the most important.
I think of this when I'm told: Korean's are kind! I usually but bite my tongue, but I've told my wife before, they seem rude and selfish to me.
The idea that other people don't matter is rude in itself. It is almost psychopathic, at least egocentric. |
If they thought about it, it would be rude, but there was nothing to compel them to think about it, and no one to observe them who mattered. So it wasn't rude. Koreans are kind--if you are part of their circle. Otherwise, you're just a lump of flesh that they have to walk around or tolerate. This is very Chinese. |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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The core of the problem here is the fact that two individual elevators were installed rather than a multi-elevator linked system.
My old officetel had this kind of two-separate-elevator nonsense and it used to drive me batty. Morons on the top floor pressing both buttons and then having both elevators go up, but only one for any real reason, delaying all of the people waiting on all of the other floors.
In my new place, our elevators are combined and are smart enough to figure out the fastest way to serve elevator requests. The difference is really dramatic.
So, in short, just another thing to look for when you move into a new place...
What? This thread wasn't about elevators? |
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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Epik_Teacher wrote: |
I'm to the point where I just push them out of the way. Same for the subway. How the hell can they expect to get on a subway when everyone is getting off? I just brush them out of the way backhand style and keep going. |
At the stations for subway line 9 they have an announcement right as each train arrives telling people to wait until people get off the train before boarding. However, they only announce this in English! Why no Korean announcement?? |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
At the stations for subway line 9 they have an announcement right as each train arrives telling people to wait until people get off the train before boarding. However, they only announce this in English! Why no Korean announcement?? |
Because it would be rude!  |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| IlIlNine wrote: |
The core of the problem here is the fact that two individual elevators were installed rather than a multi-elevator linked system.
My old officetel had this kind of two-separate-elevator nonsense and it used to drive me batty. Morons on the top floor pressing both buttons and then having both elevators go up, but only one for any real reason, delaying all of the people waiting on all of the other floors.
In my new place, our elevators are combined and are smart enough to figure out the fastest way to serve elevator requests. The difference is really dramatic.
So, in short, just another thing to look for when you move into a new place...
What? This thread wasn't about elevators? |
X 10000000000000000000000000
I went through this whole post hoping someone would bring this up. It's an oversight made in construction consistently here, even in brand new buildings. Frustratingly inefficient. |
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