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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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 Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
I try to give them an education based on morals and common sense. This country's kids, for the most part, lack both of those.
Not to sound holy and high, but I know the difference between right and wrong. |
Yeah, Korea needs a common sense revolution.
The country has been too dependent on a higher power for its history.
King, Japan, America.
The country is breaking out and achieving its revolution. SO much change and tension in Korea. It is dynamic.
The kids who get educated by foreigners have a nice opportunity if the foreign teacher puts in a good caring effort and truly teaches them about more than language. Have fun and care. Have fun, the caring will follow. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Actually, in my opinion we work for the students.
The director wants to make a profit and thats normal (even if many times it has negative consequences) since he or she is the owner of this business (the hakwon).
My idea on this is to do your job and try and improve the situation at your school (if need be) as far as education is concerned.
Finally, Alias if you see yourself as a "White Clown" then thats too bad.
I don't and many teachers here don't either. |
I agree. It is too bad. I wish I were in a better situation where I could actually teach.
Unfortunately the kids are not allowed to be disciplined in any regard. This might make them feel bad which may cause them to drop out.
I know, a good teachers should be able to do both.
The term "white clown" does seem a bit harsh but I think many teachers over here can identify with it. |
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Badmojo
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| phaedrus wrote: |
Is there some sort of ethical line teachers should follow?
Despite the fact that the owner wants profit, do they hire the 'teacher' as obedient co-conspirator, or do they hire a teacher who should follow education despite profit corruption? |
Teachers have to be put in the proper situations to teach. Hagwons that don't care how much is taught, only that it's full, don't qualify. Hagwons that prefer happy students to educated ones, don't qualify. Hagwons that unilaterally support the students instead of the teacher, don't qualify.
I don't think teachers, in these situations, are in the proper environment to teach. That also means, by extension, that most teachers in these situations, aren't really teachers. So your question doesn't matter. There's no "ethical line" involving teachers because there's no teaching, or very little of it, going on.
That's not the teacher's fault. That's the hagwon's fault for not utilizing us correctly.
I don't mean to come here and offend anyone. I speak from personal experience. When I began at my current hagwon, I saw each class once per week. Believe me, during this time, there was no teaching going on. It was games, games, games. I didn't care. If this is what the hagwon wants, this is what the hagwon gets. It gets the "White Clown." It gets the "Entertainer". It gets the "Babysitter." It doesn't get a teacher. And I never once felt bad for that. The upside was that I prepared very little, I wasn't tired at night, and I had a ton of free time to do what I wanted. The downside was that I didn't like my job very much, as it all seemed rather pointless. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| The downside was that I didn't like my job very much, as it all seemed rather pointless. |
Thats a rather large downside man.
I think that teaching is a job that depends mostly on the teacher and what he or she puts in.
It also depends on how the teacher sees himself and his job.
Of course some jobs put teachers in less then perfect teaching environments. This happens at hakwons here in Korea and also in schools back home.
I think that as a teacher its up to you (this is a generic you not directed at anyone) to invest into your job and care for your students.
This can mean working harder in less then perfect conditions.
Thats the difference betweena teacher and a person who just sits in the job. By teacher I do not necessarily mean someone with a teachers liscence but rather someone who is interested in what his students learn.
In korea, there are many bad schools but there are also many foreigners that come here and have no intention on teaching or have no interest in teaching and see their time here as a paid holiday or a chance to seave some coin.
This is too bad because in both cases it is the students who end up being cheated.
Bottom line: if you see your job as a joke or youself as a clown then chances are thats just what you will be. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The downside was that I didn't like my job very much, as it all seemed rather pointless. |
Thats a rather large downside man.
I think that teaching is a job that depends mostly on the teacher and what he or she puts in.
It also depends on how the teacher sees himself and his job.
Of course some jobs put teachers in less then perfect teaching environments. This happens at hakwons here in Korea and also in schools back home.
I think that as a teacher its up to you (this is a generic you not directed at anyone) to invest into your job and care for your students.
This can mean working harder in less then perfect conditions.
Thats the difference betweena teacher and a person who just sits in the job. By teacher I do not necessarily mean someone with a teachers liscence but rather someone who is interested in what his students learn.
In korea, there are many bad schools but there are also many foreigners that come here and have no intention on teaching or have no interest in teaching and see their time here as a paid holiday or a chance to seave some coin.
This is too bad because in both cases it is the students who end up being cheated.
Bottom line: if you see your job as a joke or youself as a clown then chances are thats just what you will be. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Bottom line: if you see your job as a joke or youself as a clown then chances are thats just what you will be. |
The problem for many of us is that if we try to conduct ourselves like real teachers we will probably be reprimanded by our bosses. "Teacher" is just a title in many hakwons. I have no delusions about my job. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
Hagwon teaching can be at times without doubt the most irritating and frustrating job I've ever done.
Especially if you're faced with a class of 15 yr olds who've been going to the same hagwon for 10 years, are bored out of their tiny minds, refuse to do any work, and know full well that you aren't allowed to do a single thing to make them learn.
Just realise that sometimes, you have a literally, impossible job- thanks to stubborn/ inflexible management. just read your novel in the corner, and stand up and pretend to teach when you see the wonjangnim walking up the corridor. |
While appying for a job the school told me they fired the last teacher because he spent the class reading the newspaper and not teaching the kids. I thought "wow what a loser, what kind of cretin would do that?"
Now I understand why he'd do that. Some classes you feel like there isn't a single kid that wants to learn. I've not given up on any kids but I can understand now how you'd just give up.
You hear about these stories about american inner city schools where teachers are just baby sitters. The kids spend the whole time throwing around paper airplanes. Forget about teaching. You're just there to make sure they don't kill each other. Some hagwon classes can be pretty close to that at times. |
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Badmojo
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The downside was that I didn't like my job very much, as it all seemed rather pointless. |
Thats a rather large downside man.
I think that teaching is a job that depends mostly on the teacher and what he or she puts in.
It also depends on how the teacher sees himself and his job. |
Homer, maybe you're missing the point.
It's true I played a lot of games with them - in fact, that's all I did. That doesn't mean that I didn't put a lot of effort into it, initially. When I began I spent a lot of time looking for games on the Internet that the kids would like. By the time I was finished I had about 30 or 40 of them that I thought would work well. To say that I didn't put anything into the job is simply not true.
But to say that I wasn't a White Clown/Entertainer at the same time, is simply not true as well. That's what the hagwon wanted me to be, and they were happy with my performance because the kids were happy.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that in some situations, the "White Clown", the "Entertainer", is not doing anything wrong. They may not be teaching, but whoever said the hagwon wanted that in the first place?
That's why ethics and ethical teaching lines is an irrelevant question in these situations. It's hard to teach when all they want you to do is play games with the kids or review what the Korean teacher has already done (who isn't doing things properly as it is, but that's another thread.) |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject: it is not always the boss |
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| Parents know what they want and the boss has to try and provide it. Remember that the boss has to answer to the parents. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:10 am Post subject: Re: it is not always the boss |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
| Parents know what they want and the boss has to try and provide it. Remember that the boss has to answer to the parents. |
Yeah, the parents want their kid to learn to be fluent in four months.
Why? Because four months costs about 700,000 won, and most other things that cost that much work perfectly when you get them.
Parents want their kid to have fun and play games, but also to not have too much fun and study instead of play games. They want a strict yet lenient teacher.
Of course the whole time the kids are bored stiff at the hagwon because they want to play computer games instead. The kids don't tell this to the parents though, instead they say how bad the teacher is and how boring English class is because the teacher is so horrible. This is what the parent hears and thinks, and when they tell this to the boss this is what the boss thinks.
Whose fault is everything? The teacher's of course. |
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Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I have no qualms about slacking here in Korea. You get what you pay for. If you want real teachers instead of clowns with mere BA's, open up the coffers and pay for them. But they won't. All they care about it making as much jack as possible. They don't give a damn about teaching and learning...that is sooooooo much of a joke over here. I'm sure that there are real teachers here(*chortle, chortle) but if you are smart enough to exploit their real intentions, you can have a great time here in Korea. I have zero, zero stress and I save money. You can condemn me all you want but I make the same wage as most of you, I save money and I'm going to ride this place until I get tired of it. I'm going to take advantage of it while I can because this english teaching thing certainly ain't gonna last forever. Use it while you can. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
Hagwon teaching can be at times without doubt the most irritating and frustrating job I've ever done.
Especially if you're faced with a class of 15 yr olds who've been going to the same hagwon for 10 years, are bored out of their tiny minds, refuse to do any work, and know full well that you aren't allowed to do a single thing to make them learn.
Just realise that sometimes, you have a literally, impossible job- thanks to stubborn/ inflexible management. just read your novel in the corner, and stand up and pretend to teach when you see the wonjangnim walking up the corridor. |
While appying for a job the school told me they fired the last teacher because he spent the class reading the newspaper and not teaching the kids. I thought "wow what a loser, what kind of cretin would do that?"
Now I understand why he'd do that. Some classes you feel like there isn't a single kid that wants to learn. I've not given up on any kids but I can understand now how you'd just give up.
You hear about these stories about american inner city schools where teachers are just baby sitters. The kids spend the whole time throwing around paper airplanes. Forget about teaching. You're just there to make sure they don't kill each other. Some hagwon classes can be pretty close to that at times. |
I suppose i'm in danger of that happening with this class- i mean I literally have given up to a large degree. I still go through the motions of the syllabus just to cover myself though- even though I may as well be talking to the whiteboard.
Once you give up, strangely , the kids notice, and actually resent you for it. they want to fight with you. On the upside, if you can still make lessons funny, even if there's little learning content, then you'll start to enjoy them as well. |
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duanemyhre
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| I gave up about a month in. Its all about the $$ here. Academics?! Whats that?! |
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cacheSurfer
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:54 am Post subject: |
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It's a constant WAR zone.
making the students learn VS. making them happy
teacher's needs VS. parent's wants
I give my students a fairly easy test every Friday. the test covers what i have taught them during the week) The benefits of doing this is that...it makes Friday easier on the teacher. And your students might actually learn something. |
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