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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| bacasper wrote: |
You'll be happy to know that over a year before he got the nomination, in fact while he was still an underdog, I posted this.... |
Jesus, dude, how many times are you gonna pat yourself on the back because some people ended up feeling that Obama has been a disappointment?
It's like a scratched record that keeps skipping (this and the diddler stuff).
Last edited by caniff on Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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I don't mean to be too mean-spirited towards Bacasper, but I just wanted to give my opinion on what seems like an internet user's form of Tourette's Syndrome.
(I'm sure he'll be here soon enough to give me the proper psychological definition of that malady so as to dispel any misunderstanding.) |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| caniff wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| You'll be happy to know that over a year before he got the nomination, in fact while he was still an underdog, I posted this.... |
Jesus, dude, how many times are you gonna pat yourself on the back because some people ended up feeling that Obama has been a disappointment? |
I am waiting for someone to acknowledge it (in addition to mises), AND for that all-important pat from caniff. Many here called me a conspiracy theorist for such formulations, but when proven right, no one comes back to say, "Hey, ya know bac, it seems you were right about that."
You guys are real good with the criticism and stingy with the praise.
(BTW, speaking of praise, despite what many may think, I am not your savior.)
What's your diagnosis? Maybe a mild form of paranoid personality disorder, or less: not even a disorder, just a trait. You are a bit hypersensitive. Now where do I send the bill? |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| What's your diagnosis? Maybe a mild form of paranoid personality disorder, or less: not even a disorder, just a trait. You are a bit hypersensitive. Now where do I send the bill? |
Wouldn't you first have to give more than half a turd before you could be diagnosed as such? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: The Road to Ithaca
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| caniff wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| You'll be happy to know that over a year before he got the nomination, in fact while he was still an underdog, I posted this.... |
Jesus, dude, how many times are you gonna pat yourself on the back because some people ended up feeling that Obama has been a disappointment? |
I am waiting for someone to acknowledge it (in addition to mises), AND for that all-important pat from caniff. Many here called me a conspiracy theorist for such formulations, but when proven right, no one comes back to say, "Hey, ya know bac, it seems you were right about that."
You guys are real good with the criticism and stingy with the praise.
(BTW, speaking of praise, despite what many may think, I am not your savior.)
What's your diagnosis? Maybe a mild form of paranoid personality disorder, or less: not even a disorder, just a trait. You are a bit hypersensitive. Now where do I send the bill? |
Sorry, I've been offline for awhile, but ... can you give specifics about when you were proven right? I'm not challenging you on your ever being right, I'm just curious about what you think about that happenstance.
Oh my Christ, Obama hasn't yet given every person eveything he or she hoped for when he or she voted for him.
How many of the, as Gibbs put it so succinctly, professiol left have considered the idea that, contrary to wishes and shooting stars, change doesn't happen in government overnight? How many have pondered the reality that the Executive branch of U.S. government is only one of three equal branches? That he is taking his time to advance his election agenda because the office he holds does not come with dictatorial power?
I am Obama's base, and I do not want him to do anything other than what he has done to advance the causes I elected him to do. In politics, slow and steady wins the race. His end goals and mine align to a T, but I am willing to give him the time to achieve them, because I'm not an idiot, and I wasn't raised in a generation who demands what they want RIGHT NOW. He plays a long game. His detactors on the left are short-sighted.
Currently, he's the smartest liberal in the room. If die-hard leftests refuse to give him room, they are only cutting their own throats.
Wake up. Grow up.
To his detractors on the right, the only thing I have to say to you is, nyeh-nyeh. Tea Party idiots will be the undoing of any hope for recapturing either the House or the Senate. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| daskalos wrote: |
Oh my Christ, Obama hasn't yet given every person eveything he or she hoped for when he or she voted for him.
How many of the, as Gibbs put it so succinctly, professiol left have considered the idea that, contrary to wishes and shooting stars, change doesn't happen in government overnight? How many have pondered the reality that the Executive branch of U.S. government is only one of three equal branches? That he is taking his time to advance his election agenda because the office he holds does not come with dictatorial power? |
Massive strawman.
Obama inflated expectations himself during election season.
Some examples:
(1) Obama promised to close Guantanamo Bay by January 22, 2010. That date has come and passed. Guantanamo Bay is still operational, and is still, in Obama's words, "a recruiting tool for our enemies"
(2) Warrantless wire-tapping continues
(3) The pie-in-the-sky promise to bar lobbyists has failed, indeed, Obama has failed to keep political appointees from working on contracts/regulations involving their previous employer from as soon as two years prior
(4) Has he created 5 million new green jobs? Please.
(5) He's failed to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 nor has he reduced earmarks to 1994 levels.
(6) He quickly abandoned his public option health plan
(7) He failed to allow hardship withdrawals to retirement plans w/o penalty (up to 15% and a maximum of $10,000), which would be a stimulus that would cost the public very little
( Americans are still forbidden to import their prescription drugs, placing protectionism before cost-savings and health-care access
(9) Obama has been in a rush to pass his legislation by a narrow margin, so he has missed his target of five days of public comment before he signs non-emergency bills
(10) He has failed to establish a National Aeronautics and Space Council, while abandoning a human mission to the moon by 2020 as a precursor to human missions beyond the moon
(11) The $3.5 billion per year Edward Kennedy National Service Plan was not offset by cancelling tax provisions benefiting multinational corporations or savings from the war in Iraq
Examples of promises kept:
Most promises involving spending lots of money
But I do thank you for bringing this back on topic. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
Oh my Christ, Obama hasn't yet given every person eveything he or she hoped for when he or she voted for him.
How many of the, as Gibbs put it so succinctly, professiol left have considered the idea that, contrary to wishes and shooting stars, change doesn't happen in government overnight? How many have pondered the reality that the Executive branch of U.S. government is only one of three equal branches? That he is taking his time to advance his election agenda because the office he holds does not come with dictatorial power? |
Massive strawman.
Obama inflated expectations himself during election season.
Some examples:
(1) Obama promised to close Guantanamo Bay by January 22, 2010. That date has come and passed. Guantanamo Bay is still operational, and is still, in Obama's words, "a recruiting tool for our enemies"
(2) Warrantless wire-tapping continues
(3) The pie-in-the-sky promise to bar lobbyists has failed, indeed, Obama has failed to keep political appointees from working on contracts/regulations involving their previous employer from as soon as two years prior
(4) Has he created 5 million new green jobs? Please.
(5) He's failed to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 nor has he reduced earmarks to 1994 levels.
(6) He quickly abandoned his public option health plan
(7) He failed to allow hardship withdrawals to retirement plans w/o penalty (up to 15% and a maximum of $10,000), which would be a stimulus that would cost the public very little
( Americans are still forbidden to import their prescription drugs, placing protectionism before cost-savings and health-care access
(9) Obama has been in a rush to pass his legislation by a narrow margin, so he has missed his target of five days of public comment before he signs non-emergency bills
(10) He has failed to establish a National Aeronautics and Space Council, while abandoning a human mission to the moon by 2020 as a precursor to human missions beyond the moon
(11) The $3.5 billion per year Edward Kennedy National Service Plan was not offset by cancelling tax provisions benefiting multinational corporations or savings from the war in Iraq
Examples of promises kept:
Most promises involving spending lots of money
But I do thank you for bringing this back on topic. |
And not keeping campaign promises is any different than any other politician how? |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
Oh my Christ, Obama hasn't yet given every person eveything he or she hoped for when he or she voted for him.
How many of the, as Gibbs put it so succinctly, professiol left have considered the idea that, contrary to wishes and shooting stars, change doesn't happen in government overnight? How many have pondered the reality that the Executive branch of U.S. government is only one of three equal branches? That he is taking his time to advance his election agenda because the office he holds does not come with dictatorial power? |
Massive strawman.
Obama inflated expectations himself during election season.
Some examples:
(1) Obama promised to close Guantanamo Bay by January 22, 2010. That date has come and passed. Guantanamo Bay is still operational, and is still, in Obama's words, "a recruiting tool for our enemies"
(2) Warrantless wire-tapping continues
(3) The pie-in-the-sky promise to bar lobbyists has failed, indeed, Obama has failed to keep political appointees from working on contracts/regulations involving their previous employer from as soon as two years prior
(4) Has he created 5 million new green jobs? Please.
(5) He's failed to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 nor has he reduced earmarks to 1994 levels.
(6) He quickly abandoned his public option health plan
(7) He failed to allow hardship withdrawals to retirement plans w/o penalty (up to 15% and a maximum of $10,000), which would be a stimulus that would cost the public very little
( Americans are still forbidden to import their prescription drugs, placing protectionism before cost-savings and health-care access
(9) Obama has been in a rush to pass his legislation by a narrow margin, so he has missed his target of five days of public comment before he signs non-emergency bills
(10) He has failed to establish a National Aeronautics and Space Council, while abandoning a human mission to the moon by 2020 as a precursor to human missions beyond the moon
(11) The $3.5 billion per year Edward Kennedy National Service Plan was not offset by cancelling tax provisions benefiting multinational corporations or savings from the war in Iraq |
Thanks for saving me the trouble, THW, but you left out a huge one: he promised to have troops out of Iraq in 18 months. That date has also come and gone, and we haven't even begun to pull out.
Does anyone else need more evidence that he is as bad or worse than Bush? |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Fascists and Fools: Obama's Base |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
Oh my Christ, Obama hasn't yet given every person eveything he or she hoped for when he or she voted for him.
How many of the, as Gibbs put it so succinctly, professiol left have considered the idea that, contrary to wishes and shooting stars, change doesn't happen in government overnight? How many have pondered the reality that the Executive branch of U.S. government is only one of three equal branches? That he is taking his time to advance his election agenda because the office he holds does not come with dictatorial power? |
Massive strawman.
Obama inflated expectations himself during election season.
Some examples:
(1) Obama promised to close Guantanamo Bay by January 22, 2010. That date has come and passed. Guantanamo Bay is still operational, and is still, in Obama's words, "a recruiting tool for our enemies"
(2) Warrantless wire-tapping continues
(3) The pie-in-the-sky promise to bar lobbyists has failed, indeed, Obama has failed to keep political appointees from working on contracts/regulations involving their previous employer from as soon as two years prior
(4) Has he created 5 million new green jobs? Please.
(5) He's failed to end no-bid contracts above $25,000 nor has he reduced earmarks to 1994 levels.
(6) He quickly abandoned his public option health plan
(7) He failed to allow hardship withdrawals to retirement plans w/o penalty (up to 15% and a maximum of $10,000), which would be a stimulus that would cost the public very little
( Americans are still forbidden to import their prescription drugs, placing protectionism before cost-savings and health-care access
(9) Obama has been in a rush to pass his legislation by a narrow margin, so he has missed his target of five days of public comment before he signs non-emergency bills
(10) He has failed to establish a National Aeronautics and Space Council, while abandoning a human mission to the moon by 2020 as a precursor to human missions beyond the moon
(11) The $3.5 billion per year Edward Kennedy National Service Plan was not offset by cancelling tax provisions benefiting multinational corporations or savings from the war in Iraq |
Thanks for saving me the trouble, THW, but you left out a huge one: he promised to have troops out of Iraq in 18 months. That date has also come and gone, and we haven't even begun to pull out.
Does anyone else need more evidence that he is as bad or worse than Bush? |
This is what he promised.
"On February 27, 2009, at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, President Barack Obama announced a deadline for the withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. According to the president, by August 31, 2010, after nearly seven and a half years of United States military engagement in Iraq, all but a "transitional force" of 35,000 to 50,000 troops will be withdrawn from the Middle Eastern nation. Obama defined the task of the transitional force as "training, equipping, and advising Iraqi Security Forces as long as they remain non-sectarian; conducting targeted counter-terrorism missions; and protecting our ongoing civilian and military efforts within Iraq"
This is pretty much what has happened. It is not feasible for any president to remove all the troops in the manner you describe. You do not want to accept political realities. Bush got us in there, Obama might not have done the best job, but it is far better than his predecessor. It is also far better than what McCain would be doing, who wants to stay there for much longer. Even if Ron Paul was elected we would probably still be there in some capacity. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Enrico Palazzo Mod Team


Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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A joke about shooting the president of a country? Let's not go there. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| I am waiting for someone to acknowledge it |
Let us revisit what you've said:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2087178
1)Obama should resign
You posted a wordcount-violating description of Obama setting up a military dictatorship...
2) Obama stops domestic spy surveillance
Given your position, I'm not sure why you posted this. Should it be construed as an attack on Obama?
3) Is Obama Torture? (nice grammar)
You posted a wordcount-violating description of prisoners on a hunger-strike being force fed as torture. Apparently this is evidence of continued Bush-era torture...
4) Preventive Detention Plan
You posted a wordcount-violating description of Obama "ruminating" on on a plan...
5) Sibel Edmonds
You posted a wordcount-violating insinuation that he's breaking promises he never made...
6) Obama Deception
You post a link to a...drum roll...Alex Jones "documentary"...
7) More Obama changes
You posted a series of links to attack articles 4 months after he was in office...
Obushama continues concealing torture
You posted a wordcount-violating description of the President "leaning" towards not releasing information about interrogations...
9)On Wiretapping, Obama Worse Than Bush
You offer a wordcount-violating opinion on an opinion...
10) Obama admin corroborates/affirms W. Bush admin's position...
You offer a link to a vague assertion of "state secrets" that we have no specifics on...
11) NYT: Obama's war on terror may resemble Bush's
You posted a link to a wordcount-violating description of Kagan's (before all the hoopla) interpretation of battlefield law.
12) Obama admin backs Bush secrets
In a wordcount-violating post, you describe Obama as not revealing Bush's secrets. Well, we can really only speculate as to whether they should be revealed...
13) IS IT GOING TO BE BUSINESS AS USUAL UNDER OBAMA?
You have a post from STEVIE describing how everything is the same...
The amazing thing is that all of this came from May of last year, 4 months after Obama took office...
My response is that he will be judged after 4 years.
Meanwhile, where are the Nazi Deathcamps (http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=156535&highlight=) you promised us?
You were right about Obama? Even before he was elected?
Nice.
Where is the genocide?
Lastly, I have to wonder why you can't, like everyone else, speak for yourself instead of with long splooges of wordcount-violating copy/paste. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: The Road to Ithaca
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Ohmygod, presidents not living up to campaign promises. Really? That's your gripe? Are you a teenager?
This all reminds of current gay rights activists who excoriate Clinton for Don't Ask Don't Tell. He campaigned on a promise (foolishly, as it turned out) to lift the ban on gays in the military. I remember it clearly because I was in the military at that time. I remember how Dole and others made that promise the defining issue of Clinton's first month's in office. I remember how every "sensible" person at the time lamented that the President had to waste his time and capital on this issue, and I wondered how history would look at that take - that he was wasting his time just to help homos. I remember how he was told by Dems and Repubs in Congress that he had no chance of accomplishing this feat, because they would pass a law over-riding any executive order he issued. And I recall, as a gay serviceman, how the eventual compromise of DADT made things MUCH MUCH BETTER for gays in the military. Yes, it was only a closet with a window, but since the US presidency doesn't come with dictatorial powers, he did the best he could to live to that promise. And I was there, and it was better than it was before.
And that's how presidents make things better. Since they are not dictators, they work with their party, not all of whom support his plans, to make things incrementally better. Because these days the Dems are like the GOP, who march lockstep behind their Furher. Despite the GOP's efforts in recent decades to claim this title, the Dems are really the Big Tent Party, which means there's a lot of diverging opinion in it.
Obama didn't cave on the public option because he's pro-insurance company. He caved because HIS OWN party wouldn't have passed HCR that included a public option. He saw a partial victory as better than a total defeat. Because he's not a teenager. He's smarter than anyone on this message board.
The alternative to this is system of incremental change is outright armed revolution. But since most liberals eschew the 2nd Amendment, that's a losing proposition, don't you think?
Ohmygod, a candidate got into office and learned it would take him awhile to accomplish some things. Be thankful for the time it takes to effect change. Elsewise, the Bush years would have been much uglier. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: |
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I love it. We believe Obama is inadequate, so we're teenagers.
| Quote: |
| Obama didn't cave on the public option because he's pro-insurance company. He caved because HIS OWN party wouldn't have passed HCR that included a public option. He saw a partial victory as better than a total defeat. |
He caved on the public option because he started in a weakened bargaining position: he abandoned single-payer right out of the gate. He's a terrible negotiator, and it shows in the poor quality of legislation passed.
Some of us during the election campaign knew Obama was raising hopes much higher than his ability to deliver. Anyway, Obama could end torture fairly quickly. It wouldn't require Congressional approval. Its an indictment of his character that he hasn't.
Anyway, I'm done engaging daskalos' blind Obamaphilia. Here's an article describing Democratic enervation.
The Democratic Left: Disappointed, Down, Despondent
| The Economist wrote: |
Mr Obama and the Democrats� leaders in Congress insist that progressives have a lot to be thankful for: the passage this year of universal health care, the fondest of liberal ambitions for decades; a financial-reform act that increases oversight of the wayward bankers who, in the minds of many, were bailed out at humbler workers� expense; the extension of unemployment benefits in the teeth of vociferous Republican objections, and so on. But doctrinaire Democrats can find fault with all these achievements. Mr Obama�s health-care reform, for example, does not involve a state-owned insurer (�the public option�) designed to keep the private ones honest, as many on the left had wanted. The extension of unemployment benefits was merely the rump of a much more ambitious proposal for a second stimulus package, most of which fell by the wayside. And the scalding of Wall Street�s fat-cats has not gone nearly far enough for many Democrats� taste.
Worse, Mr Obama�s administration has not made much progress at all towards several cherished leftish goals. The president claims to support replacing secret ballots with public recruitment drives to make it easier for workplaces to unionise (an idea known as �card check�), but the proposal has stalled in Congress. Mr Obama�s oft-professed goal of capping America�s emissions of greenhouse gases has come to naught, as has his talk of comprehensive immigration reform.
Perhaps most galling to many Democratic activists, the party�s leaders often seem more concerned about pandering to their critics on the right than looking after their devoted supporters.
The Democrats� top brass blame the party�s failings on Republican obduracy and trickery. Harry Reid, the party�s leader in the Senate, complains, not without reason, that blocking legislation by filibuster has become a Republican reflex. But many progressives see this as a feeble excuse: �I�m sick and tired of hearing we don�t have 60 votes. Go get them!� thundered Ed Schultz, a bombastic liberal radio host, at a recent progressive powwow, to equally thunderous applause. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I am waiting for someone to acknowledge it |
Let us revisit what you've said:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2087178
1)Obama should resign
You posted a wordcount-violating description of Obama setting up a military dictatorship...
2) Obama stops domestic spy surveillance
Given your position, I'm not sure why you posted this. Should it be construed as an attack on Obama?
3) Is Obama Torture? (nice grammar)
You posted a wordcount-violating description of prisoners on a hunger-strike being force fed as torture. Apparently this is evidence of continued Bush-era torture...
4) Preventive Detention Plan
You posted a wordcount-violating description of Obama "ruminating" on on a plan...
5) Sibel Edmonds
You posted a wordcount-violating insinuation that he's breaking promises he never made...
6) Obama Deception
You post a link to a...drum roll...Alex Jones "documentary"...
7) More Obama changes
You posted a series of links to attack articles 4 months after he was in office...
Obushama continues concealing torture
You posted a wordcount-violating description of the President "leaning" towards not releasing information about interrogations...
9)On Wiretapping, Obama Worse Than Bush
You offer a wordcount-violating opinion on an opinion...
10) Obama admin corroborates/affirms W. Bush admin's position...
You offer a link to a vague assertion of "state secrets" that we have no specifics on...
11) NYT: Obama's war on terror may resemble Bush's
You posted a link to a wordcount-violating description of Kagan's (before all the hoopla) interpretation of battlefield law.
12) Obama admin backs Bush secrets
In a wordcount-violating post, you describe Obama as not revealing Bush's secrets. Well, we can really only speculate as to whether they should be revealed...
13) IS IT GOING TO BE BUSINESS AS USUAL UNDER OBAMA?
You have a post from STEVIE describing how everything is the same...
The amazing thing is that all of this came from May of last year, 4 months after Obama took office...
My response is that he will be judged after 4 years.
Meanwhile, where are the Nazi Deathcamps (http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=156535&highlight=) you promised us?
You were right about Obama? Even before he was elected?
Nice.
Where is the genocide?
Lastly, I have to wonder why you can't, like everyone else, speak for yourself instead of with long splooges of wordcount-violating copy/paste. |
Wow, you sure showed me, NM!
Everybody, I guess I was wrong about Obama after all.
Vote for Obama again.
How many words is that now
Damn, stalking me around and counting my words! I've had stalkers before, but no one' shown as much love as you, NM!
Why do I suddenly feel like Gopher |
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