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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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bbud656
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Also having a Korean wife or husband to deal with parents behind the scenes would be an advantage over someone getting the new F visa on points. It might be better if more people were on an F visa instead of an e2 so less crazy people come over here and cause problems for everyone else. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| bbud656 wrote: |
| Also having a Korean wife or husband to deal with parents behind the scenes would be an advantage over someone getting the new F visa on points. It might be better if more people were on an F visa instead of an e2 so less crazy people come over here and cause problems for everyone else. |
a lot of people are short term and it still requires work on the part of the individual to get it. I don't see this drastically inflating the numbers of F2s any time soon.
realistically how many long-timers are here that really want to stay permanently but aren't that interested in marrying a Korean or on an F4? I'm sure we could cherry pick a few examples but I don't think there will be any great swelling of numbers. This is a good visa for someone like Ttompatz who has been here a long time and is married to a lady from the Philippines. After 3 years he can finally get an F5 and then sponsor his wife for an F2.
But for Joe JustGraduated, or Julie short-term, there isn't much benefit to this visa. Keep in mind that even public school teachers (Which make up a fair number of the E2s) aren't allowed to teach privates even if they have an F2, so if that is a draw for those people, it won't help them. An F2 isn't going to unlock thousands of dollars. You still need to have connections to get a job, students, etc. and there is actually very little difference between doing privates on an F2 as there is to an E2. Yes, you can openly advertise, but you still have to deal with scheduling, cancellations, reputation, etc
I predict that the actual amount of E2s who will switch to F2s will be a drop in the bucket and have absolutely no real effect on the industry or its make-up at all.
This visa, I think is good only for people who genuinely want to be here very long term and/or permanently but for some reason don't want to marry a Korean and aren't a gyopo. Anything under 5 years I couldn't see the point.
It'll take a lot of time to do the course, study the language, etc. it's a big investment if you were only going to stay here 3 or 4 years. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| misher wrote: |
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crossmr wrote:
Young FRANKenstein wrote:
Two were ESLers, one was not. Of the two waiting, only one is an ESLer. With regards to the three ESLers, all have been in Korea for more than 6 years, so they're not FOBs. The one waiting is a PS teacher, but the other two were a uni prof and a hagwon monkey.
That can't be true. If it were true, no one here would have anything to complain about.
Not my problem people want to be whingy bitches. |
Well now, I'm not trying to be a whingy "bitch" so I apologize if I came across that way.
If that is the case for your friends then it looks like things are changing in our favour. I for one am definitely more positive about this than I was a few months ago.
If the bar was lowered and ESL teachers can obtain PR, I think guys married on F-2s aren't going to like it. They may not feel threatened at first but if all it takes is a few contracts completed, a uni language course and an MA (practically everyone is getting them online these days) then the applicant pool for all of those juicy part-time gigs and the supply of teachers for privates will most likely swell over the next 5-10 years driving down wages. I know this is a negative outlook and it may not happen entirely like I previously described but if I were on an F-2 sitting pretty with only a BA and married with a kid or 2, I couldn't help but be a little bit concerned about my future employment options even if I created a good network or not. |
Shhh. You shouldn't tell all the F-2 visa people what's really going to happen....
Like any job market, skills will be dependent on one's education, and if you are in the sector of education (teaching), what qualifications you have related to that. So, yes, someone with only a BA is going to be in trouble in the next 5-10 years. Not a lot of people are visionaries and can see ahead in that respect. I am an F-2 that did see that things would change, and I have upgraded to the point I don't really see a problem with myself ever not having a job in my field, but those days of cushy legal privates and side jobs are going to be over in the near future.
One thing that you don't say that will happen is this: if enough F-2s are present, employers will stop hiring new E-2s as it will be easier to avoid all the visa problems those types of visas require.
Lastly, those with spousal F-2s will always have an advantage over a professional F-2 in that their spouse is Korean and Korean laws (and society) favor their own over foreigners. I mean this in terms of living in Korean society at large, not in terms of employability. |
However, most of the people who will qualify for the F-2-7 visa, will likely have at least an intermediate level of Korean. For example, a friend of mine has an MBA from a Korean university and has achieved level 5 in terms of Korean ability. At the moment, he has 83 points. Anyways, all of these qualifications have enabled him to work at one of the big Korean companies. Even without the F-2-7 visa which he is about to apply for (as I told him about it), he is already doing quite well for himself. And I should think that the majority of time, the same will be true for others who are able to qualify for the F-2-7 visa. |
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RyanInKorea
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Any predictions that see an increase in people applying, and getting, the F-2-7 and thus increasing the competition level for privates and other jobs is completely baseless.
Visionairy, bwahahahaha... good one. Put a little more thought into your visions before you go ahead and post about them. |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| This is one of the few useful topics that's come up on Dave's lately. I know the helpful information is bound to get buried in misogynistic/racist/tasteless/idiotic garbage, but I really hope I'm wrong. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
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One thing that you don't say that will happen is this: if enough F-2s are present, employers will stop hiring new E-2s as it will be easier to avoid all the visa problems those types of visas require.
. |
On the other hand one could argue this:
That those "visa problems" are minor. And a F-2 can leave the job at any time and find another one whereas it's harder for an E-2 visa holder. Most Korean bosses like an employee they can control/who's more predictable... |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
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One thing that you don't say that will happen is this: if enough F-2s are present, employers will stop hiring new E-2s as it will be easier to avoid all the visa problems those types of visas require.
. |
On the other hand one could argue this:
That those "visa problems" are minor. And a F-2 can leave the job at any time and find another one whereas it's harder for an E-2 visa holder. Most Korean bosses like an employee they can control/who's more predictable... |
Many employers in Japan insist that applicants have their own visas.
I forgot to mention fictitious posts. |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Konglishman"][quote="Mr. Pink"]
| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
crossmr wrote:
Lastly, those with spousal F-2s will always have an advantage over a professional F-2 in that their spouse is Korean and Korean laws (and society) favor their own over foreigners. I mean this in terms of living in Korean society at large, not in terms of employability. |
However, most of the people who will qualify for the F-2-7 visa, will likely have at least an intermediate level of Korean. For example, a friend of mine has an MBA from a Korean university and has achieved level 5 in terms of Korean ability. At the moment, he has 83 points. Anyways, all of these qualifications have enabled him to work at one of the big Korean companies. Even without the F-2-7 visa which he is about to apply for (as I told him about it), he is already doing quite well for himself. And I should think that the majority of time, the same will be true for others who are able to qualify for the F-2-7 visa. |
Yes. I know this is a forum for English teachers, but honestly, it's more enlightening to think about all of the possibilities that exist on an F2 that just aren't on an E2. Honestly, not having a wife has made me independent enough to handle anything that comes my way without having to hang off the skirt of my spouse all the time. Let me assure you, having "a wife to deal with parents" is the absolute last thing on my mind.
Society (here and otherwise) do expect people to get married - so, yeah, if you're not following that particular societal norm, then it may be more difficult to relate to married people... that said, nobody said I wasn't going to get married, eh? I'm not that old yet!
Also, my future spouse (and her parents!) can be absolutely sure that I won't be marrying her for a visa. This is a good thing. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Many employers in Japan insist that applicants have their own visas.
I forgot to mention fictitious posts. |
This isn't Japan. And one cannot get the F2 points without first being on an E visa first. If jobs were insisting on that here, they'd dry up the pool really fast. I don't think there is remotely going to be any kind of steady supply of F2s coming out of that, so you aren't going to see a huge shift. |
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McSalty
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Breaking down the ambiguity on the new F2 visa points |
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| bbud656 wrote: |
| How they measure volunteer time? |
I asked about this, since I've long-term tutored (for free) Korean friends in English. However, it has to be something approved by the Korean government, you need some sort of document or certification of your volunteer time. My Korean isn't strong enough to understand the exact requirements, but I'm pretty sure it has to be through a government organization.
| Quote: |
| Details on the culture class. |
The KIIP (Korean Immigration and Integration Program) is not a pushover free 10-points as some are suggesting. Depending on your level of Korean, it will take anywhere from 50 - 450 class hours to complete, which translates into 3 months to 2.5 years. You take a test when you register which is similar to the TOPIK, but I was told is much easier, and that determines your level.
I asked for a rough estimate of how long I could expect the class to take -- being able to pass TOPIK level 3 will test you out of most of the program, and you can expect to complete the program within 6 months to a year.
I posted more details in the thread specifically about this test:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2537832#2537832
| IlIlNine wrote: |
10 Points: Topik Level 1/2
15 Ponts: Topik 3/4
20 Points: Topik 5/6 |
I can confirm this, as I was told the same. The one caveat is that if you complete the KIIP, the maximum number of points you can receive for your language ability is 15 (I.E. a TOPIK score of 5 or 6 won't get you the full 20 points). I doubt this really affects anyone, but it's worth noting. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I can confirm this, as I was told the same. The one caveat is that if you complete the KIIP, the maximum number of points you can receive for your language ability is 15 (I.E. a TOPIK score of 5 or 6 won't get you the full 20 points). I doubt this really affects anyone, but it's worth noting. |
Why would this be? They don't note that exception anywhere on the sheet. |
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McSalty
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
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I can confirm this, as I was told the same. The one caveat is that if you complete the KIIP, the maximum number of points you can receive for your language ability is 15 (I.E. a TOPIK score of 5 or 6 won't get you the full 20 points). I doubt this really affects anyone, but it's worth noting. |
Why would this be? They don't note that exception anywhere on the sheet. |
Not sure, but the woman at immigration made it a point to inform me of that. Or I guess if we look at it from another perspective, if you can pass TOPIK level 5 or 6, your benefit for taking the KIIP is only 5 points instead of 10. That at least makes a bit more sense, since you would be able to test out of the entire language aspect of the program, and it would only take you three months to complete.
Either way, TOPIK level 5 is classified as "High fluency in using the Korean language in professional research or work. Understanding and discussing less unfamiliar topics in politics, economics and other fields." In other words, I don't think this caveat applies to anyone. The foreigners I know whose Korean abilities are absolutely sick (one runs his own hagwon and deals with all the parents directly) are only level 4. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Poltergeist wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
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One thing that you don't say that will happen is this: if enough F-2s are present, employers will stop hiring new E-2s as it will be easier to avoid all the visa problems those types of visas require.
. |
On the other hand one could argue this:
That those "visa problems" are minor. And a F-2 can leave the job at any time and find another one whereas it's harder for an E-2 visa holder. Most Korean bosses like an employee they can control/who's more predictable... |
Many employers in Japan insist that applicants have their own visas.
I forgot to mention fictitious posts. |
This thread has nothing to do with Japan. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| since you would be able to test out of the entire language aspect of the program, and it would only take you three months to complete. |
Unless you spent 2 years getting the first 4 levels from the program. Why should you be penalized if you decided to study a little more after the program to get 2 more levels? |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Poltergeist wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
[
One thing that you don't say that will happen is this: if enough F-2s are present, employers will stop hiring new E-2s as it will be easier to avoid all the visa problems those types of visas require.
. |
On the other hand one could argue this:
That those "visa problems" are minor. And a F-2 can leave the job at any time and find another one whereas it's harder for an E-2 visa holder. Most Korean bosses like an employee they can control/who's more predictable... |
Many employers in Japan insist that applicants have their own visas.
I forgot to mention fictitious posts. |
This thread has nothing to do with Japan. |
Thanks for weighing in. My point (obviously) was that if more people had their own visas, it could put E-visa holders at a disadvantage because Korean companies won't want the burden of sponsorship (just like many Japanese companies). |
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