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Lastrova
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I highly recommend you borrow or pick up a copy of David Paul's book, Teaching English to Children in Asia. The book is readily available in Seoul bookstores in a Korean translation. This book explicates and enumerates the many reasons why incorporating games--contextually of course--is essential for successful kids classes. |
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toadkillerdog
Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Location: Daejeon. ROK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Studies have proven that games are NOT very effective in the teaching of languages. |
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Lastrova
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| toadkillerdog wrote: |
| Studies have proven that games are NOT very effective in the teaching of languages. |
What studies, what kind of games, and how is a "game" defined? |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| Lastrova wrote: |
| I highly recommend you borrow or pick up a copy of David Paul's book, Teaching English to Children in Asia. The book is readily available in Seoul bookstores in a Korean translation. This book explicates and enumerates the many reasons why incorporating games--contextually of course--is essential for successful kids classes. |
Er, all people who are posting on similar lines are missing the point. The OP's friend is working for a hagwon, not a public school where styles of teaching can be negotiable or where it's even expected that the foreigner teaches their way. I didn't like a lot of things about the public schools I used to work at but I was given leeway to do everything that I had done in other countries to teach English including interesting/exciting/high energy stuff.
In hagwons it's all about the customer. Obviously. 
If a teacher in a hagwon in Korea, juku in Japan or buxiban in Taiwan does not know that they only have discretion to teach their way IF the boss and parents approve, then they are in the wrong line of work. Those institutions exist to provide the education that schools do not which is why there is so much emphasis on intensive teaching which will assist the students to enter the high school of their choice or the university of their choice.
Koreans actually spend more money on after school education than the Japanese with their overall greater wealth do. The average Japanese income is much higher than the average Korean income yet I know my hagwons have and do currently charge more than the juku (cram schools) or eikaiwa (English conversation schools) I worked at during my years in Japan. If a Korean parent does not want games but wants you to stick to the text and the way the hagwon does it, better believe that's your job.
Foreigners who do it their way in hagwons without permission end up getting sacked irrespective of their being a good or great teacher in themselves. |
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Lastrova
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
If a teacher in a hagwon in Korea, juku in Japan or buxiban in Taiwan does not know that they only have discretion to teach their way IF the boss and parents approve, then they are in the wrong line of work. Those institutions exist to provide the education that schools do not which is why there is so much emphasis on intensive teaching which will assist the students to enter the high school of their choice or the university of their choice.
Koreans actually spend more money on after school education than the Japanese with their overall greater wealth do. The average Japanese income is much higher than the average Korean income yet I know my hagwons have and do currently charge more than the juku (cram schools) or eikaiwa (English conversation schools) I worked at during my years in Japan. If a Korean parent does not want games but wants you to stick to the text and the way the hagwon does it, better believe that's your job.
Foreigners who do it their way in hagwons without permission end up getting sacked irrespective of their being a good or great teacher in themselves. |
Yes, you are stating the obvious, but you still don't understand what I'm talking about. Games can function as an invitation to more structured learning, to getting into the child's world of play, imagination. Trust me, veteran. I've taught in the jukus of Japan, and several other countries. If you're good, you'll find a way. Within even the most restricted of systems there is latitude. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Nowhere did I say what games/activities etc can or can't achieve. The point here is that most hagwons demand that as the foreign teacher you 1) Do what the boss says; 2) Do what the customers say; 3) Do what the boss says which is what his/her customers want.
That's the issue. You are an employee and Korea more than any other place I've worked reminds me and you and others when you work for a hagwon. My last hagwon wanted ONLY the foreign English teacher using the hagwon and parent approved text. Check. No games. Check. No activities that resemble games. Check.
The fact that I made my students' classes interesting there was down to my personality and ability to project an energetic persona plus board work with all the students participating. But games were banned - and as Korean parents pay far too much for hagwons I was and happy to oblige them when they tell any boss of mine what they want. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| toadkillerdog wrote: |
| Studies have proven that games are NOT very effective in the teaching of languages. |
Any links or references? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
| Actually a devious methid is to tell you kids no more games and WHY and point to the kid whose mother complained. To be a extra bastard I would have had a big bag of candy and then since no game no candy. Give that kid a day before he is complain and crying to mom about her meddling. |
This is a fantastic way to accomplish nothing outside of seriously pissing off management. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Skippy wrote: |
| Actually a devious methid is to tell you kids no more games and WHY and point to the kid whose mother complained. To be a extra bastard I would have had a big bag of candy and then since no game no candy. Give that kid a day before he is complain and crying to mom about her meddling. |
This is a fantastic way to accomplish nothing outside of seriously pissing off management. |
Really! I have heard various forms of this punishment used by Korean teachers. And they rarely get punished. True this can very much back fire as we are just white and black devils.
But it can work too. You do not have to actually point to the kid, you can just mention to another student or just make the comment that do to one kids mom everybody has to suffer. And make them suffer, more tests, push, push ,push, those kids will want to find out who messed up the system.
Sometimes pitting student against student can work. I do this in class. I have so many classes of kids do not have their book. I make a bet, I tell the kids you have your book or a photocopy, I will get pizza. I have had to only pay out a couple of times. But it has been fun to see that class that has just one student screwing up. They get yelled at and sometimes hit by other students. But by god they usually have their books in the future.
A variation of this was by another waygook teacher, he would pair up the students, so if one kid did something bad, the other kid would get punished. Soon kids where policing their partners not joining in on the fun.
Come on people think more evil, mind games can be fun. |
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mattdsoares
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
The teacher should follow the policies of the school. Some schools have a reputation for serious study and no games. The mothers and students expect this policy to be followed, as they have the right to do. If management wants to enforce the policies that they have guaranteed to their students and parents, then teachers have to follow.
| Skippy wrote: |
| Say yes, and continue doing what you want to do. Remember you are never going to please everybody. |
This advice from Skippy may work with a wimpy boss or at a school where no one cares or no one knows what to do. But at a real school that actually teaches something, you will be terminated for cause and deservedly so. |
This. As a teacher you're also an employee and have to follow school teaching policy. I would recommend this teacher talk to the head teacher or point of contact in administration for feedback, and then go with whatever their decision is. Seems like a non issue to me. I think all teachers come across times where their idea of what is best clashes with what the parents or administration think. At the end of the day at a hagwon you're a paid employee of a for profit business and need to behave like one, even if you are a teacher. |
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Lastrova
Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
Nowhere did I say what games/activities etc can or can't achieve. The point here is that most hagwons demand that as the foreign teacher you 1) Do what the boss says; 2) Do what the customers say; 3) Do what the boss says which is what his/her customers want.
That's the issue. You are an employee and Korea more than any other place I've worked reminds me and you and others when you work for a hagwon. My last hagwon wanted ONLY the foreign English teacher using the hagwon and parent approved text. Check. No games. Check. No activities that resemble games. Check.
The fact that I made my students' classes interesting there was down to my personality and ability to project an energetic persona plus board work with all the students participating. But games were banned - and as Korean parents pay far too much for hagwons I was and happy to oblige them when they tell any boss of mine what they want. |
Listen Earth. Whether or not most or all hogwans in Korea request teachers to explicitly follow the book and ONLY the book may or may not be true. I'll assume that it is not completely false. Teachers are welcome to work there if they want--that is their concern. Personally I wouldn't. The OPs situation doesn't sound like games are expressly prohibited. It seems that the problem concerns the kind of games being used, how they are incorporated into the lesson, and the parents and coteachers perception of the kind of games and the idea of games being used. There is a perfectly reasonable stigma attached to games in Korea in that many classes are essentially teaching to the test. Therefore the classes are not communicative. Therefore games that motivate students to actually speak and listen to each other are considered irrelevant and time wasting. Therefore students follow textbooks that discourage games and are burdened to memorize and regurgitate the lessons. If that is the OPs case then so be it. My contention is that IF the OPs curriculum and school isn't so rigid and strident and IF she knows how to incorporate play into activities (and these games needn't be competitive or trivial), then there is plenty to learn about utilizing games in an English program no matter what the level. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: |
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If the games that were introduced are designed to enhance learning and related to the learning material to be covered in the lesson this should not be an issue or a problem.
If the game has little to no link to the lesson and is introduced as a time filler, then the parents have a point. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| If the game has little to no link to the lesson and is introduced as a time filler, then the parents have a point. |
Hangman, anyone? |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
If the games that were introduced are designed to enhance learning and related to the learning material to be covered in the lesson this should not be an issue or a problem.
If the game has little to no link to the lesson and is introduced as a time filler, then the parents have a point. |
You're always here canning others for supposedly not knowing what they're talking about yet you are completely missing the point. Teachers such as myself who have worked in 5 countries teaching English (3 in Asia) have done so because they can use all kinds of teaching methods successfully including games.
However, as you are somebody who is always telling teachers here to suck up unacceptable situations that real go-to sources of advice on everything (like Ttmpattz) give far better advice on, I have to wince at your idea that Korean parents are going to happily settle for a one year contract foreigner going their own way when educating Korean children. It's not on.
IF the parents are happy for games to be incorporated in any way, that's fine. Nobody's disputing this. However, I can tell you from my own and others' experience that there are plenty of hagwons who tell you that you will teach exactly as specified.
A lot of the time in Korea, foreign English teachers who get the boot from hagwons give exactly your reasoning for doing things that their boss or parents do not want or like: 'The games are designed to enhance learning etc...This should not be an issue or problem'.
The issue or problem here is in the eye of the boss and parents beholding. If they don't want any kind of games, then basically the foreign teacher will have to teach as told. Personally as somebody who has taught at institutions including hagwons in Korea where the school-approved text and curriculum must followed with no games, I obviously understand how to teach in that situation and keep the attention of students.
There are normal things you can do to establish a good rapport with your students, you can energise them by your personality, there ARE things you can do to make the class interesting without games no matter how much those games are relevant,
Many foreign teachers can't and I sympathise with them because some of these school and parent approved texts and curricula are not what I would implement if it were my school. But that's the point. If it's not your school you have to do what the boss and parents want, and if you can't create an interesting learning environment without bringing in games etc because you don't have skills in those areas then you have to go and work at a public school where you've more leeway. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Is anyone else curious as to what games were played?
OP give us details! |
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