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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
Look at it from their perspective. If you want your school to feature the "General American Accent", the one used in movies and on TV, then you can hire a Yankee and have a pretty good shot at getting the right accent, or you can hire a Canuck and get a 95% shot at nailing the right accent, lest they be from Newfoundland.
Aussies, Brits, and Kiwis on the other hand can be a mixed bag, ranging from a slight variation in pitch to completely incomprehensible, even to me. |
HAHAHAHA. This one made me laugh as well. General American Accent used in the movies. You mean they sound like someone who comes from Brooklyn, South Carolina, Detroit, Ohio, Memphis, Mobile, New Mexico, just to name a few. American accents are quite distinct across the nation. Americans don't all sound like Hollywood movie stars, even in Hollywood.
So pitch, incomprehensible variety is vary apparent in American accents.
And your point about incomprehensible proves my point in the previous post. Because you were not privy at an early age to the vast array of English production, lexical items and phrases, you have limited skills, and an ability in explaining the various idiosyncrasies that is the English language. |
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tottenhamtaipeinick
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| So not only is it really hard to get any other job outside of teaching but you get judged on your appearance, sex, skin colour and origin. My gf keeps insisting it will be easy for me to get a job in Seoul because she says I am good looking. Wow what a way to judge! |
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Ice Tea
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| Ice Tea wrote: |
Look at it from their perspective. If you want your school to feature the "General American Accent", the one used in movies and on TV, then you can hire a Yankee and have a pretty good shot at getting the right accent, or you can hire a Canuck and get a 95% shot at nailing the right accent, lest they be from Newfoundland.
Aussies, Brits, and Kiwis on the other hand can be a mixed bag, ranging from a slight variation in pitch to completely incomprehensible, even to me. |
HAHAHAHA. This one made me laugh as well. General American Accent used in the movies. You mean they sound like someone who comes from Brooklyn, South Carolina, Detroit, Ohio, Memphis, Mobile, New Mexico, just to name a few. American accents are quite distinct across the nation. Americans don't all sound like Hollywood movie stars, even in Hollywood.
So pitch, incomprehensible variety is vary apparent in American accents.
And your point about incomprehensible proves my point in the previous post. Because you were not privy at an early age to the vast array of English production, lexical items and phrases, you have limited skills, and an ability in explaining the various idiosyncrasies that is the English language. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American
It took about five seconds to google that.
As for your "argument" about being exposed to "vast array of English production", whatever that means, language is meant as a tool of communication with those around you. Hence that "commun" (group/together) part of that word. If I'm the only one using certain vocabulary in my country, no one will understand me and I'll look like the fool.
Really can't you see how absurd your position is. These kids can barely form sentences and you want them to know two words for eraser (rubber), elevator (lift), skirt (jumper), and all the rest of it. Come on, get off your high horse already. |
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| Ice Tea wrote: |
Look at it from their perspective. If you want your school to feature the "General American Accent", the one used in movies and on TV, then you can hire a Yankee and have a pretty good shot at getting the right accent, or you can hire a Canuck and get a 95% shot at nailing the right accent, lest they be from Newfoundland.
Aussies, Brits, and Kiwis on the other hand can be a mixed bag, ranging from a slight variation in pitch to completely incomprehensible, even to me. |
HAHAHAHA. This one made me laugh as well. General American Accent used in the movies. You mean they sound like someone who comes from Brooklyn, South Carolina, Detroit, Ohio, Memphis, Mobile, New Mexico, just to name a few. American accents are quite distinct across the nation. Americans don't all sound like Hollywood movie stars, even in Hollywood.
So pitch, incomprehensible variety is vary apparent in American accents.
And your point about incomprehensible proves my point in the previous post. Because you were not privy at an early age to the vast array of English production, lexical items and phrases, you have limited skills, and an ability in explaining the various idiosyncrasies that is the English language. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American
It took about five seconds to google that.
As for your "argument" about being exposed to "vast array of English production", whatever that means, language is meant as a tool of communication with those around you. Hence that "commun" (group/together) part of that word. If I'm the only one using certain vocabulary in my country, no one will understand me and I'll look like the fool.
Really can't you see how absurd your position is. These kids can barely form sentences and you want them to know two words for eraser (rubber), elevator (lift), skirt (jumper), and all the rest of it. Come on, get off your high horse already. |
To answer your question about knowing two words, the answer is yes!
This took a little longer than five seconds but you get the idea:
"Standard English refers to the structure of the language, i.e. grammar not its pronunciation" (Perera, K. 1994. Standard English: The Debate. In: Teaching English. Ed. Susan Brindley) http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=JsNAEJWkAzQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA79&dq=what+is+standard+english&ots=fHoGRgrBjG&sig=HCTLxZgnHiwBkuxFbDholvkNUbI#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20standard%20english&f=false
"SAE (Standard American English) is an idealization. Nobody speaks this; and if someone did, we wouldn't know it because SAE is not defined precisely... The best hint we can give is to listen to national broadcasters (though many if not most of these people now speak with a regional dialect)". (Hartley, L. & Preston, D. 1999. The Names of US English. In: Standard English: The Widening Debate. Ed. Tony Bex & Richard Watts). http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=OHDo9VmfvWMC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=+american+standard+english&ots=xDZBmG9ZPL&sig=9k7Lor7GJ9VPMQLUkEI3r12kymE#v=onepage&q=american%20standard%20english&f=false |
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tottenhamtaipeinick
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| Ice Tea wrote: |
Look at it from their perspective. If you want your school to feature the "General American Accent", the one used in movies and on TV, then you can hire a Yankee and have a pretty good shot at getting the right accent, or you can hire a Canuck and get a 95% shot at nailing the right accent, lest they be from Newfoundland.
Aussies, Brits, and Kiwis on the other hand can be a mixed bag, ranging from a slight variation in pitch to completely incomprehensible, even to me. |
HAHAHAHA. This one made me laugh as well. General American Accent used in the movies. You mean they sound like someone who comes from Brooklyn, South Carolina, Detroit, Ohio, Memphis, Mobile, New Mexico, just to name a few. American accents are quite distinct across the nation. Americans don't all sound like Hollywood movie stars, even in Hollywood.
So pitch, incomprehensible variety is vary apparent in American accents.
And your point about incomprehensible proves my point in the previous post. Because you were not privy at an early age to the vast array of English production, lexical items and phrases, you have limited skills, and an ability in explaining the various idiosyncrasies that is the English language. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American
It took about five seconds to google that.
As for your "argument" about being exposed to "vast array of English production", whatever that means, language is meant as a tool of communication with those around you. Hence that "commun" (group/together) part of that word. If I'm the only one using certain vocabulary in my country, no one will understand me and I'll look like the fool.
Really can't you see how absurd your position is. These kids can barely form sentences and you want them to know two words for eraser (rubber), elevator (lift), skirt (jumper), and all the rest of it. Come on, get off your high horse already. |
All you did is get something from wiki need I say more. It is a selling point I guess which is lucky for Americans and Canadians, which is good and all. I said before I don't have a strong accent as even some Australians ask if I am actually Australian so it has just annoyed me a bit that it really does matter to many recruiters and schools. Oh and I said they wanted Canadian English NOT your General American accent that you so quickly assumed. |
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Ice Tea
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| tottenhamtaipeinick wrote: |
All you did is get something from wiki need I say more. It is a selling point I guess which is lucky for Americans and Canadians, which is good and all. I said before I don't have a strong accent as even some Australians ask if I am actually Australian so it has just annoyed me a bit that it really does matter to many recruiters and schools. Oh and I said they wanted Canadian English NOT your General American accent that you so quickly assumed. |
You really don't read carefully, do you? I said that 95% of Canadians have accents which fall within the General American accent and it even says so within the wikipedia link I gave you. Also, this is not about you. This is about Korean children learning English and the ESL industry in general. If you want to take a rejection of your accent as a rejection as you as a person, go ahead, but it's not about you at all. It's business, plain and simple. People will always face discrimination in some way shape or form. I didn't get a job as an immigration cop because I'm 171cm, a little to short to be tackling people. Everyone faces discrimination. That's life. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| tottenhamtaipeinick wrote: |
| So not only is it really hard to get any other job outside of teaching but you get judged on your appearance, sex, skin colour and origin. My gf keeps insisting it will be easy for me to get a job in Seoul because she says I am good looking. Wow what a way to judge! |
She's just flattering you. 
Try applying directly to major chains. Make sure photo is prominently displayed on resume. In the past, I would've recommended coming here and hitting the pavement, but those days are gone if you've never had a work visa for Korea.
Also, don't be in too much of a rush. It is a rather dry season right now for jobs. Public schools are done, unis are done, the uni kids are back in class so numbers for many academies are lower. |
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fungrel
Joined: 26 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tottenhamtaipeinick wrote: |
| fungrel wrote: |
| I'm an Aussie, and i got a job through a recruiter in Australia... weird i know! I live in the countryside, and there are a lot of Saffas and UK folk there. As another poster indicated, if you are having trouble with recruiters or hagwon managers that care about accents, DON'T deal with them. Simple. |
What recruiter did you use? |
I found it on the jobsearch.gov.au website... you know, the useless one. The guys name was Danny Kim. This is going a few years back now but may still be worth a shot
Ph.:02 8090 2709
Mob.: 0403 687 275
Fax: 02 9763 7671
Email: [email protected] |
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Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Location: Not Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Damn. That first post made me laugh. |
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Seoul'n'Corea
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| Ice Tea wrote: |
Look at it from their perspective. If you want your school to feature the "General American Accent", the one used in movies and on TV, then you can hire a Yankee and have a pretty good shot at getting the right accent, or you can hire a Canuck and get a 95% shot at nailing the right accent, lest they be from Newfoundland.
Aussies, Brits, and Kiwis on the other hand can be a mixed bag, ranging from a slight variation in pitch to completely incomprehensible, even to me. |
HAHAHAHA. This one made me laugh as well. General American Accent used in the movies. You mean they sound like someone who comes from Brooklyn, South Carolina, Detroit, Ohio, Memphis, Mobile, New Mexico, just to name a few. American accents are quite distinct across the nation. Americans don't all sound like Hollywood movie stars, even in Hollywood.
So pitch, incomprehensible variety is vary apparent in American accents.
And your point about incomprehensible proves my point in the previous post. Because you were not privy at an early age to the vast array of English production, lexical items and phrases, you have limited skills, and an ability in explaining the various idiosyncrasies that is the English language. |
Indeed as you are explaining, there isn't such an animal as the "General American Accent".
The west coast (Californian) dialect is one of 18 American English dialects.
Koreans need to start listening and stop learning their English from fricken movies and goddam videogames and start actually learning it from real people.   |
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timeo
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Seoul'n'Corea wrote: |
Indeed as you are explaining, there isn't such an animal as the "General American Accent".
The west coast (Californian) dialect is one of 18 American English dialects.
Koreans need to start listening and stop learning their English from fricken movies and goddam videogames and start actually learning it from real people. |
I agree that Korean students should be exposed to a variety of different accents, but I think what many ESL students are looking for is not an introduction to the intricacies of that world, but rather the vocabulary and grammar so that can help build their self-confidence and speaking/hearing abilities so that they can be understood by all. This is obviously reductive on their part since there are interesting accents that get passed over in favour of standard North American English, but I think it would also be misleading to claim that there is no standard generic American accent.
Let me expand on that. Obviously, there are different accents in the U.S., but the one that one hears in media tends to oscillate between a cleaner Californian accent and the generic US accent that has a very very slight nasaly-ness to it. I know that many take exception to this idea of a generic accent, but I don't find that there are so many significant differences between how people normally talk that I consciously think "Oh hey you have an accent". Even if they are significant, one rarely hears them outside of the region one's visiting, and as I mentioned before, a lot of American media has a very plain, unremarkable style of English to it, which gets broadcast across the nation and internationally, reinforcing this generic American accent. For example, I don't really consciously recognise the difference in accents between say Jimmy Kimmel and David Letterman who are born in NY and Indiana respectively and produce shows in SoCal and NYC. This might be because they're doing TV, but having spent time living here in California from my native Canada, I don't really hear a huge difference between the two places, and I don't really hear that much of a difference between places in the US either. There are some exceptions, but I don't think that those preclude the existence of a generic American accent.
edited to include that I hope the OP finds success in getting a job. Hang in there! |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| tottenhamtaipeinick wrote: |
| Standard English? Did you come up with that one? Must be the town you are from that speaks standard English. |
I don't think they're looking for 'Canadian English' exclusively... and by 'standard' I think the other poster means the flat, neutral, Canada/ midwestern US accent popularized by the American media.
But really, if you want the best possible example of 'standard English', which is superior to all other accents, then you really need to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFGYsCkQ7JA&feature=related |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Our new national motto:
Canada: USA without the politics
| mellow-d wrote: |
I think it's not only the Canadian accent but our tendency to speak slowly. I was on a flight in the States and the flight attendant asked me something. She spoke so fast, I had to get her to repeat herself. It was a little embarrassing.
In general, Koreans seem to have a high opinion of Canada. Maybe it's because we're begging skilled immigrants to come and settle in our country. Most Koreans I talk to have either visited Canada or at least know someone who has settled there through the government's campaign to attract skilled workers to the country. |
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mellow-d
Joined: 07 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Hahaha..yeah
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nfld_chingu
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Ice Tea wrote: |
or you can hire a Canuck and get a 95% shot at nailing the right accent, lest they be from Newfoundland.
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Excuse me?? |
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