Korean Job Discussion Forums

yoja · Joined: 30 May 2008

Find the ringleader, or the worst offender of the bunch, and take him down.

Keep track of all the time that the entire class wastes by being disruptive. Make a show of pulling out a watch or cellphone and checking the time and reporting it to the class.

Keep only the one worst child after class for the same amount of time as the whole class wasted. Make him write sentences, clean up the room, or do anything slightly demeaning (but not in any way abusive). Make sure the entire class knows that he is getting punished for ALL of their bad behavior, collectively. Be careful that you don't choose a kid that is already kind of an outcast or who has some kind of psychological issues already. You want to break the strongest link in the chain, not the weakest.

You will only have to do this once or twice, and I guarantee things will change. It works for any age, elementary through high school. It may not seem like it to you, but this is a very harsh punishment.

It's very shameful and humiliating in Asian culture (any collective culture, really) for one person to be singled out to take the rap for everyone. By choosing the kid who acts the worst, you are showing everyone that you are their alpha male leader and that they must ALL choose to respect you or risk betraying their 'brother'/classmate by publicly forcing him to lose face.

Kids are kids all over the world--nowhere are they always perfect little angels. The difference between kids in Korea and kids in your home country is that you know how kids in your home country's culture are expected to respond in a given situation, so you know how to manage them much more easily. Another culture=totally different responses to similar situations=you are totally frustrated because you can't make things 'work' like they should and confused because you don't know why.

Edit: Dog-fornicate. Wow. Just wow.

sbp59 · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere in SK

[quote="yoja"]Find the ringleader, or the worst offender of the bunch, and take him down.

Keep track of all the time that the entire class wastes by being disruptive. Make a show of pulling out a watch or cellphone and checking the time and reporting it to the class.

Keep only the one worst child after class for the same amount of time as the whole class wasted. Make him write sentences, clean up the room, or do anything slightly demeaning (but not in any way abusive). Make sure the entire class knows that he is getting punished for ALL of their bad behavior, collectively. Be careful that you don't choose a kid that is already kind of an outcast or who has some kind of psychological issues already. You want to break the strongest link in the chain, not the weakest.

You will only have to do this once or twice, and I guarantee things will change. It works for any age, elementary through high school. It may not seem like it to you, but this is a very harsh punishment.

It's very shameful and humiliating in Asian culture (any collective culture, really) for one person to be singled out to take the rap for everyone. By choosing the kid who acts the worst, you are showing everyone that you are their alpha male leader and that they must ALL choose to respect you or risk betraying their 'brother'/classmate by publicly forcing him to lose face.

Kids are kids all over the world--nowhere are they always perfect little angels. The difference between kids in Korea and kids in your home country is that you know how kids in your home country's culture are expected to respond in a given situation, so you know how to manage them much more easily. Another culture=totally different responses to similar situations=you are totally frustrated because you can't make things 'work' like they should and confused because you don't know why.

I like this concept and have done similar things in the past but it's 100% essential that you have your boss's support and that they are on the same page as you. This could get you fired if the boss had no idea you planned to do it or did it.

Illysook · Joined: 30 Jun 2008

This sounds very familiar. You are certainly not alone. I am slowly learning to turn the volume down on the mayhem but I pick my battles. Having a place where the sleepers can sit away from the rest of the class is helpful because then they don't distract me as much.

Group activities that they can be rewarded for are good and ye ole' powerpoint bomb games allow them to be noisy and learn something as well. Flashcard games are good too. During my first year, I made up all sorts of flashcard games that were simply different conversation exercises in which students were the cartoon characters on the cards. The characters had different occupations or things that they were doing.

If you can keep things moving along so that there's less boredom, you will have fewer problems. That craptastic phonics workbook or whatever it is? Assign pages as homework or in class assignments that you will watch them complete very quickly without much help. Then reward them for doing the work with games based on the vocab from whatever text you have. There are lots of game formats out there and once you've made up a few flashcards, you can make up your own. Kids can learn a lot in a hurry with these games. It's like they let their guard down and they just soak things up. During my year in hagwon hell, I couldn't manage my classroom worth two cats making babies, and I was always in trouble with my boss, but when it came time to evaluate the tribe of Hell's little angels, they were speaking in full sentences and using prepositions properly.

BoholDiver · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Location: Canada

yoja · Joined: 30 May 2008

Sorry, I should have specified: Wow. Shocked

Fishead soup · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Location: Korea

Get a love stick and start using it. You're not in Kansas anymore stop being such a hippy this isn't the full moon party in Kho Panyang.

Fishead soup · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Location: Korea

Get a love stick and start using it. You're not in Kansas anymore stop being such a hippy this isn't the full moon party in Kho Panyang.

brucefox · Joined: 23 Jan 2011

What happened here once was that a kid or two were making so much noise and being disruptive, I made them stand up and face the class. Then I asked the entire class of kids what I should do with them (gave them 3 options) They all chose they should be penalized by going to the back and looking at the wall. Now, Simply telling them to go to the back and look at the wall wouldn't have had the same impact but because it was peer judgment, they started crying and pleading not to send them to the back. After that the class couldn't have been more well bahaved.

bobbybigfoot · Joined: 05 May 2007 Location: Seoul

Op, I understand your situation fully. There is little you can do. Having a useless co-teacher or a boss that doesn't care can be a death sentence. I've suffered though a handful of such classes.

I have only worked for hagwons, big chain ones, and I can honestly say management is not interested in education. They see the children for what they are: dollar signs.

First and foremost, we are babysitters here in Korea. Never forget that.

Korean children follow the lead of the adult Koreans who are in charge of them. I can say with 100% certainty that if you had a boss who refused to tolerate poor behaviour, you would have a class of respectful children.

Children go bad because adults allow them to go bad. And there is a pecking order for respect. The weigookin is at the bottom.

I have nearly four years of experience in Korea. I've seen it first hand. Co-teachers who know what they are doing (and refuse to tolerate nonsense) have children who are respectful. Those that don't know what they are doing, have about a 33% success rate. The success does not come from the teacher's guidance; it comes directly from the children.

And yes, it only takes 1 kid to ruin a class. And that kid can turn other kids bad.

Here's an example of some of the nonsense that goes on where I work:

Final class of the day, I can hear the Korean teacher yelling at the students. I can hear the students yelling in Korean. More yelling. I sigh, knowing I'm next to go in. Finally the Korean teacher comes out, turns back, yells some more, looks at me and grins and walks away. I step into the classroom to find a kid rolling on the ground, kids rough housing, kids all over the classroom. I tell them to take their seats. No response. So I'm forced to yell and lecture them. I then have to be tough as nails all class long, and even then the Korean doesn't stop.

In fairness to the Korean teacher, she's fresh out of college, has no clue what she's doing and has been given zero training in discipline. She knows that management is not interested in hearing about her problems. She afraid to ask for any help. There are no rules at my school, no back up, no support. The kids realize her threats are empty and now run the show. I teach three classes with her and all three are bad.

In contrast, I have another teacher. I teach three with her as well. All three are perfect. I've taught three or four previously, all the same. The second a kid steps out of line, she's in their face, mom gets called, written warnings get given. She's a senior teacher, is older than management, and isn't afraid of anyone. She walks with confidence. The kids see this and behave accordingly. She's the only teacher I have where I have to encourage her to go softly on the kids. She's ready to pin a kid to a cross at any time. It's highly effective and I wished every teacher taught with her style. She demands respect and gets it.

Fishead soup · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Location: Korea

tanklor1 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006

tanklor1 · Joined: 13 Jun 2006

winterfall · Joined: 21 May 2009

I use really, really nasty tasting candy as punishment. Altoids Licorice flavor. They got to eat one. I gave it to a 16 yr old girl, causes all kinds of problems and you can't discipline them like boys. To make a long story short, she started crying after eating it.

7, 8 years might be too young for candy though.

RMNC · Joined: 21 Jul 2010

Why do you have 25 kids in an after school class? Aren't most of them supposed to be hagwon-sized?

Steelrails · Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System

I highly recommend the children's classic "Miss Nelson is Missing".

Become The Swamp.

And you should be like that from Day 1. Then you can ease up a little.

Also "Walking the Line" is a good one. Get the rest of the class to hold their chairs above their heads (while you do it as well- Team Suffering) have the troublemaker march up and down in between the two lines. Make sure its for a public infraction that everyone knows is 'wrong'. Do it as long as it takes. Sooner or later one of the kids will kick him or the kid will break down in tears and you'll have to drag him a few times. At that point leave him to the mercy of his fellows.

Did it once, kid ran to his teacher to escape his friends. He's been an angel ever since and all I have to do is say his name in other classes and kids hush.

Ripping up some of their Duel Master cards is a good one. Let them save two out of three and rip up the third.

Taking away break time is great for milder offenses. Cleaning the bathrooms for more major offenses. Just grab their rubber-gloved hand and make them scrub the inside of the bowl a few times. Do it bare-handed to add an element of "Teacher is hardcore".

Once you've earned their silence through discipline, then you can earn it through smiles and rewards.

That and you MUST have "The Voice" and be able to take it up multiple gears in anger level. Ideally you should be able to tell the class to be quiet without having to say quiet and do so with a smile on your face and only the slightest raising of your voice. True mastery and you can get them to be quiet by speaking more softly.

Silence is another great way to get silence.